D Will to Pacers?
Hey guys. I just saw a link on ESPN talking about D Will to Indy. It was an insider so I couldn't pull it up. Anyone privy to such things willing to share to the rest of us? What do you guys think about this? Would he even want to come here? Well the Pacers are definitely starting to get more recognition. Magic saying Pacers are top 3 during the Heat Bulls game the other night. They continue to rise in all the power rankings. Is their cap space big enough? We would be deadly....I can see him actually playing with a little bit of motivation over here with this teams mindset. I think with the respect we are starting to accumulate, they might be able to pull it off. Anyways, I was curious to read that. Can anyone share?
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Here it is Bro
Indiana Pacers
Current TR championship odds: 0.6 percent
With David West and Roy Hibbert’s improvement, the Pacers are building on last season’s eighth-seed finish. Indiana now has the sixth-best defensive rating in the league, and it may be time to build on the momentum and add some offense.
Needs: The Pacers are 28th in the league in effective FG percentage. This can be improved with better shooting, but it might also require a playmaker who can create shots for teammates. It better be a good playmaker, too, because Larry Bird’s crew has very slim title odds right now.
Assets: Indiana goes two-deep at every position, and while depth is nice, you can’t play 10 players at the same time.
The trade: Darren Collison and George Hill to New Jersey for Deron Williams
Collison and Hill are both quality young players, something New Jersey is sorely lacking. Once the Nets realize Dwight Howard isn’t coming — and, as a result, Williams is leaving — they’ll need to get something for their star point guard. The Pacers would love Williams to stay for more than his one remaining contract year, but even if he leaves it still adds cap room for the team to pursue Indiana native Eric Gordon. As an added bonus, the Trade Machine says this deal will result in more wins for both teams.
Steve Nash would be an interesting alternative if Williams ends up somewhere else.
If it ain't broke...
Williams for Collison and Hill? No thanks. That gives us nothing off the bench in terms of scoring. We’d have to get another team in the mix, or try and grab MarShon Brooks. There’s no way the Pacers front office makes this mistake.
I'd do it in a heartbeat, doubt NJ would
This would potentially put our team over the top and give us a chance to win the East. One option to improve the second unit, would be to swap DJ for PG.
This would allow DJ to focus on D and not have to be a major ball handler in the 2nd unit. 2nd unit offense could be driven by PG, Hans, and Price, which isn’t half bad when you throw in Foster as well.
We could also further bolster the bench by adding another wing (potentially one of the China guys). Or get Morrow from the nets.
INDEED!
In fact its working quite well. Lets give these guys a chance to see how high they can fly before we even consider breaking them up.
2 for 1?
Why would the Pacers consider trading two players who in total match D Williams in stats? NJ would love it as they would get two players with several productive years. The Pacers wiould get a 1/2 year wonder who would follow Howard net year, forcing them to go out to get E Gordon in a bidding war..
Richard E Schultz
Always a Chance
but the odds are he stays HOME.
ONLY if he would sign an extension!
I’m buying if he’s willing to extend. Selling if he still wants to test the market. I’ve never been sold on Collison being the long term solution @ PG. The alternative there sounds even worse, I like cheering for Eric Gordon on other teams. But would not want him on the Pacers, cause then I would hate him for being such a Prima Donna about playing.
“Ouuuch my pinky hurts, I need to sit out 6 weeks coach”.
If he signs an extension I'd do it, but I'd try to keep hill and drop Danny
While I’d rather start Williams/PG/Danny instead of Williams/Hill/PG, just sending Collison/hill doesn’t free up enough cap space to keep Roy (without going over the cap), who I feel would be crucial to convincing Williams to stick around. I doubt we want to pay luxury tax for a team that isn’t guaranteed to be awesome. So Danny would have to be included so we wouldn’t absorb so much salary. Plus it would take at least one draft pick from 2012, b/c NJN will be looking to recoup some of the picks they wasted trading for Williams in the first place.
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How about this then.
DC, Granger, first for Williams and Brooks. I’d even throw in Lance, Pends or Price. I would say Lou, but we are rather thin at the PF/C position.
Hill can still come off the bench and Brooks starts at SG.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
Although Brooks has a broken toe and can’t be traded right now.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
I'd take Morrow...or whatever
I guess. The real key is that it’s tricky assuming that both Williams will extend AND we’ll have enough money for Roy. This wouldn’t be a problem if we could jettison some other future money.
I’d say DC, Hans and a top 20 protected 2012 pick for Williams, with us kicking another future unprotected first in if we could guarantee he’d extend early would be fair. We’d have hella salary tied up in Roy, DG and Williams (like close to $45 mil) but we wouldn’t have to pay anyone else until the Paul George extension. It would essentially mean we let DG walk when he expires (or salary dump him before then) and that we’d have to let West expire without an extension of any significance. We’d also have to offer Hill the MLE (which is pretty much what he’s worth) because we’ll probably be near the cap by the time we figured in Roy’s extension.
But if they were in “get something now for D-Will” mode, they’d probably consider the young, cheap point guard (DC), young, cheap PF (tyler), immediate cap savings (though I don’t know what they’d do with it…they don’t need it) and 1-2 draft picks as a pretty good deal. Meanwhile we’d trot out D-Will/PG/DG/West/Roy next year and be able to keep Hill and various cheap vets on the bench. That’s championship-caliber.
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That's the real question...
Would DWill sign an extension here?
I think we have a lineup that would make DWill drool. However, DWill seems to want to form his own super team. Pacers can’t offer that, just a damn good team. haha If DWill doesn’t want that then he obviously doesn’t care about winning, and so the we wouldn’t want him anyways.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
This one has my head spinning.
The possibilities are endless in BOTH directions. This could be a monumental disaster, or a powerful boost to our game. DC / Granger / 1st rounder for Williams and Brooks. Wooow. Man, I’m glad I don’t have to make decisions like this.
why're you so insistent whis this opinion that Herb Simon won't go over the cap?
up until this current season the Pacers have been over the cap every single year of Herb’s ownership. He, and formerly Mel, have been more than willing to spend money on a winner.
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
Because we are barely over the salary floor and we're only rostering 13 players
I take that to mean we’re moving down a more conservative road. Doesn’t help that we’re winning and everyone drools over how money savvy Bird is. I’m not necessarily saying they won’t go slightly over the cap, I just don’t think they’ll put themselves in a position to be close to the LT threshold with Paul George still to pay.
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we're well over the salary floor
Herb just paid James Posey 7.5 million to just go away. Herb doesn’t make roster choices, he signs the checks. I’m a lot more willing to take the past as prologue than I am my opinion of what a billionaire’s thinking.
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
Guys
If you don’t understand how Deron Williams makes us better, you must’ve just started watching basketball this year. He’s the second or third best player at his position in the entire league. He’s capable of averaging 18/9 on a craptastic team when he’s barely trying. Now, I’m not saying our team should blow up for him, but if he can be had reasonably, and commits to staying for more than a half year, he’s the type of player that puts the core group we already have into the title conversation.
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I don't think anyone's arguing that Williams would make us better.
But as you said, he’s the type of player that puts the core group we have into the title conversation. The issue being the CORE group – if we have to break that up to get him, no, he’s not worth it. Finding out which pieces are expendable and which aren’t isn’t as easy as simply naming our two guys that aren’t playing their best ball right now.
Who's doing that? I offered everyone except Roy and PG, who I think are untouchable
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agree
can’t see how people are saying that DC+G Hill is BETTER than D Will. Especially, when you take into account that there is at least a decent chance that Hill leaves (or costs 7+ Mil) next year.
Since DWill came back for the Nets they have actually been a respectable club, which is sayin alot considering they don’t even have Lopez
D Will would have some nasty weapons to work with (Great post players, Spot up shooters, and guys who would be great in transition).
Ugh, I take that back.
DC / Granger / first rounder for Williams and Brooks isn’t that attractive, considering this is a deep draft year and 9 of our key players are all draft picks ranging from 10th-mid 20s. Giving up a first rounder in this draft is like giving up a future starter +DC +Granger. I don’t think it would be worth it.
Williams would DEFINITELY add to this team, but I don’t think giving up two of our pieces to get him would be beneficial. Especially when our depth is what’s helping to keep us afloat.
Eh
I will ALWAYS be a fan of stars over depth in the NBA. It’s fun to say the Pacers could win a title with this group because of their “chemistry” and “hard work” and “deep bench.” But facing facts, without blue chippers, teams don’t win titles. The Detroit Pistons everyone references as “star-less” even had a high lotto pick in their starting lineup (Rasheed Wallace in his prime, picked #3 or #4 overall, I think). Williams is that star. Get a guy like him, pair him with very good role players and another psuedo star (Hibbert and/or DG) and you’ve got yourself a chance at a title.
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We will probably be picking around 22. I think we can take a chance and trade that. The only guy I’d want around that pick is. This year’s draft is loaded with bigs, not point guards.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tony-Mitchell-%28North-Texas%29-6229/
And with a good workouts, he might shoot up draft boards.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
Actually love Doron Lamb
I think he’s what we’re lacking. He’s like an OJ Mayo type who’s actually proven for one of D-1’s best programs, and any other draft he’d be a top-10 lock. It’s not yet clear whether he’ll even come out, but he’s overshadowed by some of his teammates and some of the other guys in his draft class, so I think he’d be a steal if he slipped near our range or we traded up slightly for him.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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These aren't rumors
They’re suggestions from an op-ed article. Were not trading anyone…
also this
but IndyCornrows loves rosterbation more than anything
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
it is a pipe dream, but it’s an interesting proposal. I still think DC + Hill are not going to get you DWill alone.
But DWill would take this team to the next level for sure if that’s all it took.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
let's look at what it took Jersey to get Deron
Devin Harris, who’s regressed badly (and is a guy I think we should consider chasing), but at the time was a top 10ish PG, a super potential top 3 rookie in Derrick Favors, 2011 pick that was clearly going to be at least top 5 (ended up being Enes Kanter) and this year’s Nets pick.
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
Yeah, but at this point Deron Williams is like that new car once you drive it off the lot
They have to know his value is diminished to near-unrecognizable levels with the way he’s tanked this year and made it clear he’s not extending long-term there. If they can’t get someone like Dwight Howard (not happening) then they’ll try to get something. Of course this can all wait until the summer in a sign-and-trade, and it may have to, given all the teams that will balk on the prospect of renting him. They’d get even more for him then, if he agreed to opt out and long-term with them holding his Bird rights and all.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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D Will would be a free agent end of this season
We could just keep our assets and just sign him :) why would we want to give up so much for him when we still have other pieces to be added. In a way we will be right back where we started because we still have to sign Roy and others at the end of the season. Everybody calm down… We have a lot of options so let’s try to be wise about this. :)
by the pac on Jan 31, 2012 4:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I can see this happening
I read an article on ESPN stating that D Will was not restricted on big markets. He wants to go to a winner. If he agreed to do a extension I think this trade should be considered. Like said earlier: Granger/Collison + 1st round (2013 preferable) for D Will and M. Brooks would be fair.
DWill
Brooks
P George
West
Hibbert
Looks like a really good starting unit.
Yes it does.
But I’m not going to cry that it’s not gonna happen. I really like our team. Even DJ isn’t getting on my nerves this year.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
Regarding Dahntay Jones...
You must be the only one, even though his shot looked great against the Magic a couple of days ago.
LET THE HATERS HATE.
by INdymayneNVegas on Jan 31, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
He's not the only one...
At least Dahntey isn’t getting on my nerves anymore than Hansbrough, Stephenson….and he’s been much less frustrating than Amundson.
Don’t get the Jones hate. He’s not that bad. He’s not as good as he thinks he is and he’s always got something to say to the refs.
peac.e
Ya'll can have the OTHER DWill if you want...
Derrick Williams…
So much rosterbation in one blog.
Sounds like half the bloggers have never known the touch of a woman.
Kidding. Just can’t figure out which side (DWill or not DWill) I want to be although I am pretty sure I don’t want to trade DC and DHill for only DWill. If NJ is willing to accept DC plus another bench guy, I might consider it but definitely not 2 or our top 7. Besides, I’m happy that we don’t have any primadonnas in our team.
I'd rather go after Nash because I think we'd have a better chance keeping him.
But the idea of upgrading at PG is a good one in general. Collison is good and 5 years ago that might have been enough. But the league is so stacked with PGs right now that you simply can’t look at him and think that he’s PG who can lead you to a title without a mega-star next to him (and we don’t have a mega-star).
Looks nice
This trade looks so nice. But for Hill and Collison seems like it may hurt more then help. We would definitely need to know he would resign but i think we need to consider the future first. If we signed DWill to a long term expensive deal… would we be able to resign Hibbert (someone will offer him the max). Also if we go after Eric Gordon i do not think we will have enough money to resign Paul George in 3 years. It could be bad to blow a lot of money NOW instead of waiting to spend it in the future. The odds that Paul George becomes a bust are pretty slim, when his contract is up it will be worth a lot of money and i think we would be better off keeping him in 3 years then having a 32 year old DWills for 13 million dollars already on the books.
I’m not saying that this group of players are title contenders, but at some point you have to start building team chemistry. Back in the 90’s Indiana had some very good players on the team, Reggie being the closest thing to a “star”, but they never had a superstar player. Deron Willams is an elite player in this league, but if you trade away your good players for one great player you become the New Jersey Nets.
by gut19 on Jan 31, 2012 11:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Normally, I would say that 1 super star trumps 2 or 3 good players.
There’s only 240 minutes to go around. Having 12 really good players is nice, but you can only have 5 players on the court at any given time. None the less, you can’t just bring in a guy who’s shown some lack of effort and clashed with an HOF coach while your in the middle of a season where you are building chemistry with a great group of hard working guys.
If we could get him (with an 3+ year exetension) for some of the low cost stuff that people have mentioned, like Collison, a bench player (preferably not Hill), and our 1st rounder….I think you have to strongly consider that. But, I also don’t think that NJ would settle for such low end pieces.
I’m going to say no thanks to any realistic deal involving Williams at this point. Especially with his high salary. Even though, when he’s playing his game on a good team giving you an efficient 20/10 he’s well worth a max deal…we don’t have the cache to draw players the way NY, LAL, and MIA do so I’m afraid we’d get stuck with Hibbert (a good facilitator in the half court in his own right) and D.Will and not much else.
peac.e
At first I was all "Hell yeah!"
But then I thought about how he drove Jerry Sloan to retire and how he doesn’t seem to be trying all that hard. To me that’s a character problem that can’t be overlooked. Are the Nets thin on talent? Very much so. Does that mean he should throw in the towel? No. I hate Lebron James, but for what he did try with some pretty crappy teams in Cleveland and succeeded to a degree. That’s what a team’s best player should do. I just can’t like a guy that doesn’t want to try.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Feb 1, 2012 5:36 AM EST reply actions
i disagree with people's accusations of deron not trying or having a bad attitude
even though he may have been a reason jerry sloan retired, it’s not like sloan is completely free of guilt. sooner or later, you have to get with the times, and if sloan was refusing to adapt to his team, then it is also partially his fault. it’s not like he’s phil jackson or something. sloan has no rings. i personally think deron started getting a bad rep bc sloan is a HOF coach, blah, blah, blah.
and what is the basis for deron not putting in effort during games? i don’t see it. he’s been playing very well as of late. there is not a single instance of a teammate of deron’s saying he was a bad teammate or he that didn’t lead by example. even in europe, they were so impressed by him that they retired his number.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
CHIEF
I know you're an Illini fan...
But besides a few spurts of effort here and there, I have to point to his horrible shot selection this year (in the handful of Nets games I’ve gotten a chance to see) as evidence for him “not caring.” When Kobe or LeBron have nothing but stiffs on their team (granted, this only happened like one season for Kobe) they still dominate statistically, win by themselves and even in Kobe’s shot happiest, get everyone else involved who deserves to be involved. Deron is either A. Not as great as we all thought or B. Doesn’t care enough to take smart shots and take over as many games as he should. Look at his FG%. It may not be fair to say the latter, but I truly believe he’s a great player, so it kind of makes sense.
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i understand your thinking
but to be fair, his shooting numbers have been going up as of late. it currently sits at 40.2%, which i know isn’t good, but it’s better than danny’s as of now. he’s also playing with guys like shelden williams, sundiata gaines, and deshawn stevenson. i know his numbers are down since going to the nets, but if he was on the pacers, im positive he would put up even better numbers than he did with the jazz.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
CHIEF
by wonillionaire on Feb 1, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Look, I'm not arguing that he makes us a ton better, and that I'd trade all but PG or Roy for him
I’m arguing that he turned it off this year. I just don’t care that he did. Doesn’t bother me at all.
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