Chris Kaman Rental, Anyone?
by LukeNukem on Jan 28, 2012 7:47 AM EST
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Chris Kaman is reportedly available. So available, in fact, that the Hornets will not play him until they trade him. Given his injury history, this is awfully nice of them.
Anyone interested? Kaman expires at the end of this year, so this could possibly be a short-term rental. But it accomplishes a few things:
* It provides the post depth we've been lacking all season. That extra center body off the bench, perhaps that guy Bird has been looking for to get at a discount, could be Kaman.
* It provides us with a fallback plan in case Roy Hibbert's asking price is too high this summer. Kaman and Stanko could piecemeal out Roy's production.
* It provides us with a legitimately good backup center, who should be playing an important role on a roster somewhere (not just sitting around waiting to be traded).
The biggest downside to Kaman is obviously his health. He's missed 107 games since the start of the 2008 season. But he's healthy now, and he'll be looking to produce over the final few months of his contract in order to secure some long-term money on a winner. At worst, if Indiana acquired him in hopes of infusing some size and experience into our post rotation for a playoff run, and he got injured, he'd be a highly expensive waste of a roster spot. This is not much different than Jeff Pendergraph, who is a very inexpensive waste of a roster spot. The Pacers have the money to acquire Kaman in a virtual salary dump. Trading him straight up for any expiring contract on our team, or simply offering a second round draft pick (or both, like a combination of Price and a second, or Amundson and a second) would work financially.
While the Pacers probably aren't wiling to give up the pieces necessary to make the Hornets much better in a trade for Kaman, not many teams will, as he's expiring at the end of the season, and his health is a concern. I don't know what they're expecting for him, but a second rounder and $12-14 million in instant savings sounds like about as good an offer as they're going to see from anyone. I've already read the Spurs are interested, but I haven't seen who they might be willing to trade to get Kaman. We have a leg up on them, though, because they are several million dollars over the salary cap and have no good salary to give back to New Orleans (all they have is long contracts and an expiring Tim Duncan). I'm not sure the Hornets' motivation to trade Kaman now, but shipping him here in a salary dump is a win-win. It would take them from over the cap to under the salary floor, but give them the financial flexibility to absorb someone in a trade that helps convince Eric Gordon to stick around.
Personally, I think a 2nd rounder (or perhaps even two second rounders) for him is both fair and smart. We've seen the Pacers struggle without Foster. Look what happened last night when Hibbert had his first bad game in a long time. Kaman, who was very recently a borderline All-Star, could flourish for 20 minutes per night. If Bird could swing acquiring him in a salary-dump, the Pacers would suddenly look smarter than all of these cap strapped contenders (with no trade exceptions) who will want him but can't figure out a trade that works. This is the sort of move that would make that extra roster spot, and all those extra millions we've been holding onto, make sense.
What say you?
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hi again luke.
guess you know my vote already.
Why Not
The dude hasnt been playing that bad this year. I bet he can get baskets to fall around the rim. Sure!
***Forever Grunge...Man!***
*Gotta Finish at the rim when your a foot from it*
As long as its just us taking on salary.
If they want anything more than a 2nd rounder or a marginal player in return (i.e. pendergraph), then I would have to say no.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jan 28, 2012 8:26 AM EST reply actions
would love to
but they’ll get better offers than anything we’d offer. straight cash savings doesn’t help NO much at all.
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
They are over the cap and they're paying Kaman $14 mil
Dumping him would take them from $61 million in payroll to $46 million. I’m not saying there’s a big free agent out there who they’d like to acquire, but if they can then subsequently take on someone else’s salary problem that helps them at another position, or gets them younger, it could be a means to an end to keep EJ. Also I completely disagree that they’ll get many better offers. Most of the contenders don’t have the flexibility to take back his contract and they’re the only ones who would be motivated to give up anything other than cash savings for a guy expiring in a few months.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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Okay, re-thinking this
The only reason a team like NOR would be trying to trade an expiring contract is to shave payroll for a potential buyer, right? I mean, they clearly don’t figure on winning anything except for the lottery this year. There’s no motivation to give up assets who aren’t costing them anything in the long run. They’re not paying luxury tax. There aren’t any good free agents out there who need to be signed (unless they’re after someone like Wilson Chandler or something). Why offer Kaman? This is a move done by middling-to-decent teams at the deadline to make playoff pushes, not cellar dwellers with nothing to lose. They must be on the cusp of selling, and every little million saved helps. Just a guess. If I’m right, that makes a salary dump to a team like us the only logical option.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Yeah Luke
Pretty good observation. BUT, would you want us to try and land W.Chandler???? What would we have to give up…Tyler? Lance? Both??? Denver is playing good right now w/o Chandler/Martin/J.R Smith and they’re prob capped out. I know its OFF the Kaman subject but I’m still up for Kaman as well.
***Forever Grunge...Man!***
*Gotta Finish at the rim when your a foot from it*
by rockguyinindy on Jan 28, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Has anyone ever seen this?
I have never seen a comment like this in a box score… makes it sound like a trade is imminent
DNP due to an “organizational decision”??
That's already a given.
They said he’s not active b/c they are looking to trade him. It’s in the press.
peac.e
I'd like it...
…mostly because his presence might take some of the offensive pressure off of Hansbrough in the second unit. Hans might get back to being a productive player. The bad: Absorbing Kaman’s contract would essentially wipe out all of Indy’s flexibility to make a move this season (trade deadline, etc.). Would 20 minutes a night from Kaman be worth that price?
by Glenn A. on Jan 28, 2012 10:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes.
I’d love to have Wilson Chandler, probably rather have him than Kaman strictly for basketball purses/talent/long term up-side.
However, 20mpg from a legit PF/C is exactly what we need. I’ve been saying that all season. A backup scoring gaurd would be great too, but I think Hill is better at that role than anyone on our roster (save a healthy Foster) is at backing up West and Hibbert. Based on last season, you’d think Tyler’s presence SHOULD make the backup scoring gaurd an equal need, but right now we have two guys that shouldn’t being playing alot more than 30 mpg each in the front court and then….nothing. That’s 36mpg we are giving to Amundson and a very, VERY disapointing Tyler Hansbrough.
A 2nd rounder and/or Pender/Amundson/Price would be just fine with me. I might even give up Tyler straight up at this point…but for some reason, as silly as it sounds, I wouldn’t like giving Tyler and 2nd rounder….but I’d do it.
peac.e
Give them the first rounder and Pendergraph.
Good chance we’ll be drafting 20th at the earliest, so we should make it out okay in this deal.
NO!!!!
We can’t give them an unprotected 2012.
NO FREAKING WAY!!!
We need more QUALITY depth. And we need it to be fairly cheap. If the team can continue to move/pass well and have superb luck healthwise, then I’d say…ok. Trade them the 1st rounder. There’s a pretty big drop off in this draft somewhere around the early 20’s. But, there’s no gaurantee we’ll be picking in the late 20’s. And though I think Kaman is a pretty great fit, he’s injury prone, Danny, West, and Roy are all more than capable of missing 5-10 games and that would probably spell a 4-8 game losing streak.
I like the idea of risking a bit of money and maybe even some future flexibility/upside for the sake of winning this season. But, this is going to be a good draft and we have alot of players deserving money in the near future. And we need to keep enough flexibility to add another proven player or two. Trading that 1st rounder would be stupid.
IF they’d take an unprotected 2013 pick….oh….that’s a whole other story. That draft doesn’t look quite so good. I’d probably trade Amundson (rather him than Pender, but I’d do Pender) and our 2013 1st rounder.
Kaman is not enough of a surefire upgrade (not healthwise anyway) to risk giving up the nice, cheap piece we can add in this draft.
Tyler and a 2nd rounder is my highest bid. Anything above that will pi$$ me off beyond no end.
peac.e
I can remember mentioning Kaman (Big Unprotected Expiring)
not to long ago and the feedback was anything but positive.
Althou i would like nothing more then to take credit for this seemingly random change of heart, I CANNOT! Thank You Jeff Foster!
Was your comment before....
…Kaman was traded? If so it was clearly a totally different environment then. Was your comment before Gordon missed 10+ games and NOLA lost all hope of making the playoffs this season and found a buyer? That’s even bigger change.
I’ve always thought Kaman was a solid big man…until he started missing tons of games.
Off topic, sort of. If Kaman had stayed healthy and continued his trajectory, then 2003 draft would be best draft ever hands down. I still think it is…but Kaman being a 15ppg/9rpg/1.8bpg player for 10+ years would’ve helped the arguement with Hinrich, TJ Ford, and Josh Howard also all petering out before their time.
peac.e
confusion
I know this works on the trade machine but how do they get past the salaries not even coming close to matching? I’d part with any or all of the below and nothing else, pendergraph, price, amundson, jones, 2nd rounder. NOH killed their leverage by not playing Kaman and openly announcing their trade intentions. getting him, as already discussed, would kill their chances of grabbing Wilson but I think addressing the depth up front is more vital to the Pacers success in 2012.
by northeast nightmare on Jan 29, 2012 12:02 AM EST reply actions
also
I didn’t think NOH frontline looked too bad with Emeka, Kaman and Landry. Certainly not in the top half of the league but formidable. The ONLY reason this move makes sense is that they want to save $$- no way they get a 1st though. hope this happens for the blue and gold
by northeast nightmare on Jan 29, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
We are WAY under the cap....
….with Posey’s amnesty.
If you’re a Pacer fan and you are talking “us and them” type deals or game situations. Don’t say “their chances of grabbing Wilson…” Take ownership man, b/c I had to read it twice to figure out what you were saying. Pacer fans = “our chances”.
Anyway. We have the cap space to absorb Kaman. More than we can say for just about anyone else in the league. But, you’re right. We would be capped out after that and Chandler, player-for-player would be a better long term investment than Kaman. But, if Chris can stay healthy all season I think it’s worth it. He addresses a more clear need and…I wouldn’t be upset with Chandler as a top 7 rotation player, but it’ll take a long term salary commitment to get Wilson and I’d almost prefer the great short term fit of Kaman than the long term, probably reasonably affordable fit of Chandler.
Also, I actually think Chandler will take like a $2mil. short term contract from a team that will give him starting minutes so he can get a bigger/longer deal this summer. Taking a chance on a guy who’s shown ability in some gimicky schemes and then spent a chunk of time away from the NBA playing against lesser players…could’ve picked up bad habbits in the past year and a half.
peac.e
i guess i shy away sometimes from saying ‘us’ as I usually get crap like ‘what are you on the team?’ (not on indycornrows though) So we can absorb any contract size just as long as we stay under the cap? the player salaries don’t need to match? is this a new rule? don’t remember it being this way before…
by northeast nightmare on Jan 29, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
That rule has been in place for a long time.
Salaries only have to match if the trade will put one of the teams over the cap. And I think the rule is still in place where they only have to match w/in 75%.
But yeah. We have tons of cap space. We won’t have as much next season probably assuming we want to keep Hibbert, Danny, and West.
peac.e
Always needed
A big with some talent is always needed——14m would make him the highest paid player on the team!!—-I am not sure how well that would sit with existing players——We have always needed a Brad Miller type to back up Roy——even Solo looks good about now——next to nothing is about all I would give up however——a second yes, more, price, maybe—-but might be good for aj—-long term it ties our hands at midseason, and if he plays decent, he will be gone next year—-if he doesnt’, who cares.
No Kaman
We don’t need him. We have other needs.
Like what? What need is more important than center depth?
It’s absolutely this team’s only true need. Another wing player with potential (to not become a lazy pot head) would be nice. But a legit backup center is essential when Foster is injured, which is pretty often. Think if Hans or West or, God forbid, Hibbert, went down with a significant injury. You’d really pass up the chance at an above-average center because you feel comfortable with Amundson or Pendergraph playing 25 minutes a night? Even if it’s just a 4 month salary add for us (giving up nothing but like a second rounder)?
I agree that ANYONE trading their first in this draft is bad business for Kaman, unless they really need him long-term, but if he’s cheap because they’re trying to shave costs for new ownership, he’d be perfect. There’s no logical argument otherwise.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Would the new CBA allow us to sign and then immediately trade any currently unsigned player? If so, Larry should get a shopping list of what the Hornets want for Kaman and do it that way. If not, then Larry should get a shopping list of what the Hornets want for Kaman from around the league and act as an intermediay with all of our cap space.
Herbie needs to stop being the cheapest owner in the league and give the Pacers a fighting chance to get into and past the second round of playoffs this year.
No
There’s always been a moratorium on signing free agents then trading them. It used to be 60 days. 60 days from now would be after the trade deadline.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
I believe that was one of his pre-conditions to sticking around.
He even called him out on it in the off-season, Herb responding in confirmation.
Larry Legend Leads on…
This second paragraph is what makes you a flat out moron
It’s like you have no recollection of the past whatsoever.
"He's like Darth Vader." - Frank Vogel on Larry Bird
Look, Foster will be back soon and even though he’s not a scorer, his defense is great. Players around the league respect Foster for his tougher than nails approach and he fits too well with the team to trade him.
I'm not sure why....
…but for some reason your blind faith and optimism are really annoying me. It shouldn’t bother me.
35 year old Jeff Foster, who’s played the game of basketball more like a fullback than a Forward-Center, has logged an average of about 15 minutes per game in about 77 of the past 187 games. I’m sure he’ll be back by this week to dominate the paint for 20+ minutes a game the rest of the season. Get real. We need help in the front court. Or at the very least we need Lou Amundson, Tyler Hansbrough, and/or Pendergraph to step up quite a bit. The past 3 games Ty and Lou have been making those strides. But, they still aren’t reliable enough to give us the amount of minutes we need at this point.
It wouldn’t bother me as much if you put some qualifyers in there, like, “I hope” or “with a little luck” or something.
peac.e
really could care less what you think to be honest, I’ve said my peace and that’s all, I’m not faulting you because you lack faith. I think everybody in this league is watching the Pacers and one more impact player will send us over the top and I just don’t think that our need is in bigs.
Let's just say I have alot more faith in Hill coming back and playing big minutes than Foster.
Our backup Guards/Wings= Hill, D.Jones, and Lance…and Price. I like that depth much more than Tyler, Lou, and two Jeffs that don’t play basketball in the NBA right now.
I’d love to have a legit scorer off the bench, but you can see David West and especially Hibbert wearing down and we haven’t even begun to hit our tough stretch of hectic games (I’m not just talking opponents, I’m talking 4 or 5 games every week for weeks on end).
It’s coming.
peac.e
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