A New Rosterbation!
by jhadley86 on Jun 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT
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PrintFor everyone out there looking to hear anything envolving trades for the draft, you are probalbly not getting anything untill draft night. Larry bird does not like to talk about what he is thinking untill it is over. Also on that front there has been really no news on any major sites about movement. The lastest players linked to be traded are Josh Smith, Marvin Willisms, Monta Ellis, Andre Iguodala, #2 pick, Richard Hamilton, Bynum, and D. Cousins. That is really all Im seeing around the Rumor Mill.
If we make no trades on draft night and select a player at 15 and go into the offseason there is a plus there if the league locks itself out which seems more viable everytime that the players and owners meet. The players want more, the league wants less, way less. We are nba fans. But if you talk to people around town, they could care less. I hear "well they made the playoffs, I wait and see if they can do it again."
That got me thinking. If they do move granger in the offseason. What do they have to get back to make the playoffs. Minny is shopping the #2 pick and DG has been mentioned as a player they are going after. I read on a blog spot for minny that they would offer #2 pick, Anthony randolph, Webster, Flynn for DG, Jones, Collison. Thats too much on this end to give to them. We are not going to make the playoffs giving up to starters for maybe one. Like all teams people over value there assets because they are fans. Dont get me wrong, I love anthony randolph, I see him like a Jermaine Oneal. Not playing much his first three or four seasons and going to a team where he can start and develope into a big time power forwar. The kid is only going to be 22 years old this season.
Anyway a trade with minny will prolly put us back into the lottery. Danny is a good player. He played good in the playoffs. If you want to stay in the playoffs I think you have to keep him and get a player or two this year and the final pieces next year. But at least we will be like the old days where we can watch playoff basketball and hope for the best.
On that note. Miami is 26 James 28 wade 27 Bosh. they are in thier prime. You will have to outlast them like we had to do with the bulls. If we put together a great depth team with great defense and a go to player we will have the chance to beat them if we have a good series. I think that we either need to go for gold and trade for potential and see if we can maintain or we go for a team that still has good youth and you put that with some veteran players and make a run for the next 5 years and see where that takes you. Either way I want to stay in the playoffs. Once you get there, there is no saying what could happen.
Anyway, sorry so long. Lets hear your thoughts and Ideas.
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I only voted "trade for youth" if it's the T-Wolves #2 pick, as you proposed
I don’t know where you heard about the DG rumor, or how true it is, but here’s my thoughts.
I’d do it for two reasons:
1. Collison is replaceable. Jonny Flynn is pretty bad, but Collison was pretty bad for probably 70% of the season last year. Flynn’s never had PT. If the net gain is Kyrie Irving, it doesn’t matter…he’s worth Danny Granger in my book.
2. Jonny Flynn is probably not a starter, but if they threw in their #20 pick to that deal and the net gain was Derrick Williams, it doesn’t matter. Between Flynn and whoever we could get at #15 or #20 (like Darius Morris or Jimmer) I’m pretty sure the dropoff between Collison and one of those guys is going to be less than everyone assumes, and Williams makes it worth it.
That’s it. Williams or Irving, either one, would be worth trading Granger for. When it all comes down to it, the only players I truly care about retaining on this current roster are Paul George and Roy Hibbert (and I’d trade Hibbert in a heartbeat for the right package…George to me is untouchable). But this whole “trade for youth and still make the playoffs” notion has to be thrown out the window. Anything you get for Granger is going to be a player or players who won’t be ready to make the Pacers a playoff team. My goal would be to, over the next two drafts, assemble a team that could be ready for n 8-seed by 2012-13, and ready to knock off Miami (who, if they’re still intact, will be loaded with 30-somethings) by 2014-15. That’s it.
I’d prefer a smaller-scale deal, but I’d take either Granger for Williams, Webster and Flynn, or Granger and Collison for Irving, Webster, Flynn and #20. But no matter what the goal for 2011-12 would be simply to grow together and get ready to draft someone like Jeremiah Rivers, Perry Jones, Harrison Barnes, etc. next summer and go from there.
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by LukeNukem on Jun 15, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I voted the same...
…however…I’m not so sure, if we gave up Danny and drafted D.Williams….and we don’t give up Collison (or in this scenario Flynn plays as good as Collison did…like not so good for long stretches but good enough to keep us in games in others)…
…I don’t really see that making the playoffs would be out of the question.
You know me. I’d rather have a top 5-8 pick (especially in 2012) than win a couple playoff games in a losing series. But, if D.Will is who I think he is and is a little more advanced than I think he might be…and George continues his growth and Rush or Jones can remain healthy, we keep Collison, Hibbert and Hansbrough and they all improve a smidge…why couldn’t we make the playoffs…with a good young coach that can elicit consistent effort.
peac.e
A. Randolf
I have been high on this guy for a couple of yrs now….Jermaine like (healthy), love to see him at the 4 and Tyler backing him. I was hoping they would make a deal with the Knicks last season for him…..Bet we would’nt have got killed on the borads in the playoffs. I say get him. EVEn if a draft trade isnt involved. The kid can flat out ball.
***Forever Grunge...Man!***
i used to be high on that anthony randolph
but he hasn’t produced that much in 4 seasons in the league. i think he is what he is at this point, unfortunately. i also don’t see the JO comparison at all.
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by wonillionaire on Jun 15, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
im not sure hes topped out
But I never really thought he was that good. Maybe its the college, but I always kind of saw him as a potentially better version of tyrus Thomas. There’s just too much evidence that he sucks (and not enough that he’s the next jo) for him to be considered an asset in a trade
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by LukeNukem on Jun 15, 2011 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
JO to Randolph
I am not saying they are the same player or even the same type of player. The last 10 or so games last year he averaged 21 points and 9 rebounds. Now thats the end of the season on fresh legs, but the comparison is that they didnt get much playing time for their first 3 to 4 years. Maybe when he gets his chance to be the guy, he takes advantage of it like JO did in Indy. Getting that potential would be a good thing.
I think the difference is...
JO played for the same team, riding the same bench, behind a near-championship level post rotation, for four years. He got to learn under Mike Dunleavy, who at least looked like a good coach at the time, playing backup to Rasheed Wallace, Brian Grant, Arvydas Sabonis and Shawn Kemp. Yeah, there was quite a bit of crazy mixed in there, but also quite a bit of experience and All-Star level talent.
Randolph on the other hand has been shipped a couple times for peanuts. There’s got to be a reason for it, and even if there’s not he’s clearly not gotten the chance to develop. That may or may not be his fault, but the fact remains that the time may be running out on him blossoming into this supposed future All-Star Warriors fans thought they had 3 years ago. Jermaine was less of a gamble, and more of a salary-dump-turned diamond in the rough. All he needed was PT. Maybe that’s all Randolph needs, but there are certainly more red flags.
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by LukeNukem on Jun 15, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Getting a flurry of +1s from my arch nemesis
We need each other like Perry the Platypus and Dr. Doofenshmirtz need each other (only people with kids would get that reference)
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LOL.....
cant deny when a man has a good point.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 15, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
don't know how it will play out in Minny
either Love or Randolph will have to play the center position if they want to start at the same time. who ever that is is going to get pounded on defense, neither one of those guys are anywhere near the hard nose blood and gut type players that bang in the post. Love is just crafty on getting position and getting his hands on the ball, but defensively he’s pretty bad.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 15, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Either way
The trade proposed above would make the team incredibly interesting, at least at the beginning of the season as we see how Williams, George and Randolph would play together. Throw in a PG flyer later in the draft (Morris, Mack, Cole?) and that would be a very exciting young core.
But if we don’t make a blockbuster trade I’d still be happy. Some really intriguing prospects in this draft and potential for small trades to grab another pick, plus an ability to manage our payroll so we are still in a good position for the great 2012 FA and draft.
They only thing I really don’t want to do is overpay this year for some middling FAs (a la Detroit)
by Rogco on Jun 15, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think if we want to get past Miami, we need to shake things up.
This was a proposal that I really liked from PacersDigest:
Danny/Rush/AJ/#42 for Beasley/Flynn/Randolph/#2/#20
Take Derrick Williams/Irving at 2
Chris Singleton/Marshon Brooks at 15
Reggie Jackson at 20
I’d definitely do that.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
that would be a lot for minny to give up
For essentially granger. Id do that in a heartbeat, though I wouldn’t draft Reggie jackson at 20
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by LukeNukem on Jun 15, 2011 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Stay The Course
I voted stay the course because in my view we already have a really young team. The “old” player on our team is still not even 30! There is no sense in accumulating youth if you don’t allow time for that youth to mature. If we keep adding pieces to the core that we have now and actually get someone who can coach them, I think that we have the potential right now to be a top 6 seed in the East. I know that the goal is a championship, but let’s take incremental steps and build a team the right way. I am not enamored of anyone in this draft class, including the top 2 so I don’t think it is worth the risk to trade away fairly young proven commodoties for potential that only has a little better than 50% chance of being realized.
Anyhow, that is just my $0.02.
So are we supposed to rec this post so it goes up top to replace the last one?
I’m new to reccing things at IndyCornrows. Used to be, when I still went to StampedeBlue, there was a horde of salivating Colts nerds there to rec stuff for me so I wouldn’t have to worry about contributing much to the community other than the occasional snide remark. F*** it, I’ll rec it.
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Ive got one I wanna rehash.....Nikola Mirotic
Nikola Mirotic. I really wanna get back into the first round. Ideally, Id have three 1sts in this draft, but that’s not gonna happen I suspect. Since its not going to happen we probably wont take him, but Nikola Mirotic is gonna be the next Big thing out of Europe and Id love to use an early 20s pick on him if we could get it for Rush or something. He’s got contract issue because he plays for Real Madrid (played huge in the playoffs for them), but this kids the real deal and we could stash him a couple years while we continue putting this team together and getting better. Then, bring him in as the cherry on top, ideally ready to play from day 1 in the NBA, when he finally comes over.
dunno bout Mirotic, at all
other than that he looks insanely skinny.
But if we’re going to get back into the 1st somewhree in the 20s I like the USC C Nikola Vujecic (I think that’s spelled right). He’s not much of a defender because he’s big and fairly slow, but boards well and really nice well rounded offensive game. He’d absolutely give Roy a run as a starter by year 2.
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Mirotics a project, but I doubt we'd draft him for monetary reasons...
He killed in the European playoffs and he’s only like 19.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 15, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to have to add him to my next mock
When I did my last one it looked like he was going to pull out. Huge buyout. We’d HAVE to stash him for a few years.
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Here's one, if you like Euros
Bojan Bogdanovic. One of the best scorers in the Euroleague, he could be ready to go, pending a buyout, and available mid-to-late in the 2nd.
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A simple trade
Would be if Washington really liked someone at 15. Trade them the 15th for the 18th and 34th. With a little luck there will still be some really interesting prospects at 34 (Mack, Norris, Jeremy, JaJuan etc…) or we could package the 34 and 42 to move back into the first.
sounds good to me
so long as there’s not a faller that’s a no brainer for us at 15 obviously
KEEP COACH FRANK
Definitely
I know Bird said there were 3 guys he wanted, so if only one’s left at 15 I guess you take him. But if there are 2 or more, and you know Washington isn’t taking one, then it would be a great deal. Could work well for both teams depending on who they are interested in.
I've suggested this before...I think there's a way we can get three first rounders
Trade the #15 for the #18 and #34 or the #19 and #38, then trade Rush for JO and the #25, then trade the #34 (or #38)+#42 for the #28, #29 or #30
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Yeah, your right.....
email to Bird for me please.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 15, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Picks
I have been looking at so other trade options that does not have DG in it. I was searching for picks or even some good veteran help.
One trade that made a little since for me was a trade with chicago.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6gwmzck
Chicago sends Bogans, 28, 30th picks to Indy
Indy sends Rush, and Jones
Chicago gets a defensive guy who can attack the basket when rose is setting. They get a role player that can be good when he wants to be. They want some more athletic SG’s that can take a little pressure away from Rose. They might be able to do that.
Pacers get an expiring deal also with two late picks in the draft. 15, 28, 30, 42. You can package or stay put. All in all you will add some depth that will need time to develope, but be good for a long season ahead.
Not really
You have to think that they want to win championships right now. They have the talent to do so. you give them two athletic vets that cost no money and that will expire. If you have to then you can through in the 42 pick. but I dont think that is that bad at all. You want to win now. D. Jones can slow down wade while one him. He is a great defender.
slow down wade while guarding him.
that is better than anything you are going to see from 28 or 30.
I don't see Chicago doing that
Unless they really don’t like this draft and have a hard-on for either Rush or Jones. Would be a neat trade though.
I'm all for
Making small moves and waiting for next year to do the big moves when free agency is better as well as the draft class. Something small could be drafting Marshon B. at #15 then trading B Rush for another 1st round pick in the middle of the draft and picking up someone like Jeremy Tyler or Nikoli V. from USC. In the second round I like either a point guard to possibly replace AJ Price or maybe someone like Vernon Macklin who could be an enforcer comparable to Dale Davis. Any moves made that are big now is risky with the CBA not in place.
A trade for my buddy.....
was just on SLC Dunk and they were talking about how they really like the trade of , Milsap and the 34th for our #15 pick. What you guys think? I think I like it, it doesnt blow me away, but certainly seems to make us better, now and future with a lot of potential guys still maybe there at 34.
Sorry guys....
I gotta correct myself, Utah doesnt have the 34th pick, this scenario, was an after trade of a larger Washington trade. My bad. I dont think Id do it without the pick. IDK, I don’t hate Milsap , guess I would have to see who’s available at #15 before I made a decision, but I’m thinking probably not.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 15, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd probably trade Hansbrough OR the #15 for Millsap alone...
But you know me…I heart Millsap
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While I like Milsap, My gut tells me teams would kill us down low. Me no likey.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
I don't really necessarily heart Millsap
Justin just thinks I do because I’d trade the #15 for him and I supposedly make a bunch of comments about how I want to sleep with him. That last part may or may not be an exaggeration.
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But I would think they would want to get rid of Jefferson….. I mentioned this earlier and he just doesnt really fit age wise and costs a lot. I could see a straight salary dump with the new cba
Knicks beat writer Alan Hahn
Says the Knicks want to move up, says “rumors about talks with IND”
http://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/81106247432159234
They don’t have anything I’d want that they’d realistically trade to move up just 2 spots.
KEEP COACH FRANK
They've got to be after Burks or Brooks, right?
DX now has Burks all the way down at #17. Either these guys are just stupid, or somebody knows something we don’t on him, or is hearing some negative press, etc. If Burks was a #8 or #9 consideration a week ago, Tweeted that he feels he’s top 10, and is now being mocked later and later every day by reputable sites (followed by NY “talking” with us about trading up), wouldn’t it make sense they’re after him? Or maybe they want Brooks or Selby and Bird started floating it out there that if one was on the board he’d take him unless NY traded the pick?
The Knicks naturally don’t have a second rounder this year, they’d be stupid to trade a future first to move up two spots, and it doesn’t seem like there’s anything on their roster that works. I’d be happy to take Landry Fields or Toney Douglas off their hands for them, but that ain’t happenin. I guess Ronny Turiaf would be nice. But I’m guessing this has to involve one of those “undisclosed future conditional picks” deals that’s going to end up being a future second. Don’t do it, Bird (that is, of course, unless you can still get someone you like at 17, then, by all means, do it).
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How can New York trade a future first
when they traded their lives away for Carmelo? I could’ve sworn they are without a 1st after this year until at least 2013. They had to move picks for Amare and Carmelo. No deal with the Knicks is plausible. Plus I can’t stand them because I hold onto the past. Lol
Yeah, 2013 is fine
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humor my trade idea
IND L. Deng, E. Udoh (Trade Granger, Rush, Price)
CHI M. Ellis, D. Wright, B. Rush (Trade Deng, Gibson, Brewer, 1st rnd pick
GST D. Granger, T. Gibson, R. Brewer, A. Price (Trade Ellis, Wright, Udoh)
by northeast nightmare on Jun 15, 2011 8:12 PM EDT reply actions
Who gets who's first rounder?
I’d do it if the first went to us…maybe one of the two firsts and a second from either/both of them.
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If those are the only guys (no picks) we are getting.
Then my answer would be no.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 15, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I've actually considered a IND-GSW-CHI three teamer
I’ll make a new post about it
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i also meant to post
chi gives one 1st rnd pick to IND, one to GSW. My reasoning behind trade is the belief PG will emerge as the go to guy in two seasons. Deng and Udoh will provide better D, Udoh needs a couple years to develop but will be a better fit with Hibbert than Hans.
by northeast nightmare on Jun 15, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Three teamer (warning, this deal sort of sucks for us, depending on how much you like Dorell Wright and a bunch of draft picks)
GSW gets Granger, Posey, Price #28 (incoming salaries=$20m, not counting signing picks)
IND gets Biedrins, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, Dorrell Wright, #11, #30
CHI gets Ellis and D. Jones
Why GSW does it: They swap Ellis for Granger (pretty lateral move), lose Dorrell Wright for nothing (which sucks), and pay 17 draft picks to salary-dump Andris Biedrins. Yep, that’s how bad Andris Biedrins’ contract is (3 years, $27 million remaining). This deal gives them a core of Granger/Curry/Lee and puts them at around a $38 million cap number next year, which they could use to make a run at Dwight Howard, I guess, or someone…
Why CHI does it: To trade pieces and parts for a star. Ellis is on their wish-list, for whatever reason (though I think he makes them worse…or at least not that much better). They mortgage the future (three draft picks and two promising youngsters) and dump two experienced rotational guys. They’d have to like Ellis a lot to consider it. But with a starting five of Rose/Ellis/Deng/Boozer/Noah, they probably feel like they don’t need much else besides cheap free agents and veteran filler guys (the Juwon Howards of the world) who will sign on for cheap to win a title.
Why IND does it: I don’t know, I just wanted to see if we could get involved because we have cap space. The negatives: It forces us to lose our best player, take on an atrocious contract and two pretty bad ones. The positives: It gives us back one GREAT contract (Wright) and three first rounders. I know by themselves the first rounders aren’t much, but would Utah consider swapping the #3 for the #s 11, 15 and 28 (or a protected first?) Would Washington swap the #6 for the #s 11 and 15? Would some terrible team like Minnesota or Sacramento trade us an unprotected 2012 first for the #11? Anything’s possible. Also Gibson and Asik are nice.
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intriguing but...
I think Biedrins’s high salary (9m, 3yrs left) and low production (<60 games last season,5pts/7reb, ) scares Indy from this deal, even for Wright. If he was out of the equation I’d pull the trigger even w/o CHI draft pick-give it to GS who needs a little more in return for this deal.
by northeast nightmare on Jun 15, 2011 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
The Brandon Rush condundrum
I’m a tad bit confused that many of the trade ideas have Rush bringing in 1st round picks to Indy, or when justifying why a team would trade for Rush, there are glowing reviews about the defense he’ll provide to his new team. I guess I’ve just been under the impression that the vast majority of Pacer fans consider him hopeless and worthless, so to project for him to bring in a 1st round pick, or to provide another team any type of value seems a bit out of sync with what I’d say is the majority of Pacer fans’ perception of him.
I dunno
I hate him. I’d trade him for a non-guaranteed 2nd rounder, or Brian Cardinal.
That said, as long as there’s a perception out there throughout the league that he’s decent, he has a shot of netting us a late first. The trade i’ve always proposed has been Rush for JO and the #25 for a few key reasons. A. The Celtics need warm, experienced bodies at the backup wing positions. B. They’d save a couple mil (+ a couple more from not signing the pick) by doing this trade. C. JO sucks just as bad as Rush does.
Stuff like that. If we could get a pick straight up for Rush, I’d do it, but I doubt many teams would agree without something like I proposed where we take back an equally bad salary (maybe two years at an equal sum to Rush’s contract, or one year at slightly more that we’d have to absorb).
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Oh
And Boston may want to trade their pick, based on what Ainge has said lately
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I believe Brandon Rush could provide our team with defense and enough offense to justify keeping him on our team. He is a good athlete, a decent shooter and scorer. He does have a tendency to get lost at times on both ends of the court, but has not played enough at this point to garner the disdain most fans have for him. Maybe his off the court issues are what bothers some fans. But rarely do I see any mention of his past indiscretions in the discussions on fan websites such as this. I was extremely disappointed that he was rarely on the floor during the playoff series during the Bulls. At least we would have a better idea at this point as to whether or not he is part of the nucleus of this team going forward. Rush needs to know that he is being given one more make or break opportunity next season and the best way to get Brandon to embrace his role is to start him. He could be at least as good as Bogans is in his role for the Bulls. If he disappoints, he will be off our books next season. Considering how little we pay him, it is worth the gamble to find out whether Rush “gets it” or if he becomes a journeyman who eventually plays his way out of the league.
by thomasezekiel77 on Jun 16, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Rush is a scorer?
My mind has been blown. You want to know why I don’t like Brandon Rush. 3 years, 6048 minutes, and 0 improvement from his rookie year.
- He has been the same player for 3 years. There is no part of his game that a person can look at and go, “Oh yeah, he got better at this since his rookie year.”
- He consistently disappears from games (March aside).
- I highly suspect he has a low basketball IQ.
- His defense isn’t good enough to justify the minutes he plays and his lack of offense.
- He lacks a fire.
I, for one, was ecstatic that Rush played very little during the playoffs. I strongly feel that the team plays better when he plays less, if at all. I don’t really care about the marijuana stuff. I believe we have a firm understanding of who Brandon Rush is. An offensively anemic, slightly above average defender with no drive.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 16, 2011 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Other than the once-in-a-blue-moon teaser game where he scores 15-20 points and drives to the basket effectively, he has not shown anything to suggest he is or will be anything better than he is currently. I can’t complete discount the fact that somewhere down the road he will have an epiphany and suddenly have a burning desire to compete and be the best ball player he can be, but it just doesn’t seem likely. We can’t continue to pay him and take minutes away from players who have shown such potential to see the same old BRush floating through game after game.
by Abe the Hoosier on Jun 16, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
if that happens i'll cry
Burks is too young and fills too much of a need to pass up at 15.
Disagree
I’ll take Brooks scoring ability and killer instinct over Burks’ youth any day. Brooks had to score against better competition and just like his game more.
by ClutchReggie31 on Jun 16, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as a trade is concerned
The Pacers roster has shown enough potential that if all we do is add a draft pick, there is reason to believe this team will get better. This coupled with the fact that the franchise will be in good shape financially, regardless of what the new CBA looks like, means that in any potential deal, the Pacers should negotiate from a position of leverage. They shouldn’t consider any deal that would acquire a player with questionable character such as Michael Beasley from Minnesota. If the T Wolves are truly interested in acquiring Granger, the Pacers would have to improve dramatically at two other spots in the rotation to make it worth it. Granger has a good contract for someone of his skill level, and has potential to improve as he is just now entering the prime of his career. Therefore, he will be a tradeable piece for the next couple seasons regardless of his suitor. The Pacers should ask for Rubio, Randolph, and the second pick for Granger. If the price is too high for the T Wolves, Indy will move on with the current roster and still have the ability to make a deal if they decide to do so in the future.
by thomasezekiel77 on Jun 16, 2011 2:01 AM EDT reply actions
If you are trading with Minny
You tell them to keep Rubio. You want the 2, 20, Anthony Randolph, Flynn, and Wesley.
You give them Granger, Collison, Rush, S@T with Mcbob and the 15. I think you do this and go hard at Rodney Stuckey. at 6’5" he is a good scoring Pg and a decent enough pacer. Now you have Stuckey and Stephanson both at 6’5" thats not a bad combo. thats a really tall and athletic team that should be able to stay in the playoffs.
Pg – Stuckey 2 – Flynn 3 – Price
Sg – George 2 – Jones 3 – Stephanson
Sf – Johnson 2 – George 3 – Draft pick
Pf – Randolph 2 – Hans 3 – Draft Pick
C – Hibbert 3 – Foster
All you will need to do is get one or two free agents to fill the roster untill next year or get peices you think will make this team better for now and the future.
so when Utah drafts Kanter and Ferdette
… how do we get us one of dem big guys?
Who cares
The REAL question is which team do the idiot national media and random internet commentators ridicule because OMGZ THEY LUVZ WHITE BOYZ ROFLWAFFLE
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If Jazz pick two white guys
will the internet explode?
I want milsaps!
Milsap for the 15th pick
A no brainer. Mayo for the 15th pick a no brainer. Alec Burks a no brianer. Jimmer a no brainer.
Anything that gets us back to the playoffs, priceless!!!
agree with all except millsap. he isn't worth the 15th pick.
he can’t rebound. we can’t have both our starting big men not be able to rebound well.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
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Hail to the Blue.
Hail Alma Mater,
Ever so true.
We love no other,
So let our motto be
Victory, Illinois, Varsity.
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by wonillionaire on Jun 16, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he can't OFFENSIVE rebound
his defensive rebound rate’s really good, ~20 every year of his career. he also puts up 17 a night on 53% and has a probably bit below market value 2 years left at 8.1 and 8.6 mil, which isn’t even right because he basically got a 5 mil signing bonus so it’s closer to 7.5 and 8 or so.
You wouldn’t give the 15 for that you’re nuts
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he's undersized. too much so for my liking.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
Hail to the Orange.
Hail to the Blue.
Hail Alma Mater,
Ever so true.
We love no other,
So let our motto be
Victory, Illinois, Varsity.
Chief Illiniwek lives
by wonillionaire on Jun 16, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking I wouldn't give up the 15 for Mayo.
No problem with Millsap.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 16, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
So if Burks is there at 15,,,or Jimmer..... There will be at least one prolly more, guys there at 15 I really like.
we should trade it for Mayo or Millsap? I think not. I wont go there again on the 15th for millsap and why I d rather have Faried.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 16, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really get that personally.
Why do you like Faried more than Millsap?
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 16, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't ask him
Or in the words of that one crazy guy who posts here, MARK MY WORDS DON’T ASK HIM
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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Please dont ask me...
I think I have ranted enough about Faried. But for short, why bring in an older guy who has hit his ceiling( not very high ) instead of the upside of a younger Faried, who IMO could turn out to be very special. And at the very least, becomes a MIlsap type player, oh yeah and hes much cheaper.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 17, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont agree
He is a 17 and 8 guy. If you get 15 to 20 points a game from him and 6-10 rebounds that is worth the 15th pick.
If they are looking to go young and want to get rid of AL Jefferson, and Paul Milsap, and Devin Harris. I would make this trade.
Utah gets the 15th, 42nd, Collison, Hibbert, Posey, Rush, 2013 lottery protected
Indiana gets – Harris, Jefferson, Milsap
Utah fans will call the trade crazy but think about it. You have the 3, 12, 15, and 2 second round picks for this year. You will have collison, hibbert, favors, heyward as a young core. You will be able to add some core young pieces with the 3 high picks. some depth with the 2 second rounders. They will have 2 first round picks next year and two for 2013 and two in 2014. That is amazing for a team wanting to rebuild and stack up for a weak western conference in three to four years.
Why we would do this trade is for this reason.
Pg – Harris Pg – Stephanson/Price
Sg – George Sg – Jones
Sf – Granger Sf – George / Dunleavy
Pf – Milsap Pf – Hansbourgh / Mcbob
C – Jefferson C – Foster / FA or G. Oden
Now you will have a great starting line-up but you will have to add some depth either this year in F/A or next year with both the draft and FA. That is a veteran team that can make a run for the next 4-6 years.
Right
But you can’t include picks that a team already has and call it a net gain for that team. That would be like me stealing your car and telling you “look how good you made out! You still have your wallet!”
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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No. I am saying that they will have all the talent we give
plus all the picks we give them and they will have with young talent. Not to mention in 2012 they will only have a cap of 21-22 million. That is all that talent with 30-40 million to spend. Thats pretty impressive.
Reggie Jackson cancelled all his remaining workouts
We had him scheduled to come in, seems like he got a promise. Still weird though, if I weren’t lazy I’d look it up to see where he’d worked out, but hard to imagine a team with a higher pick than us promised him.
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Most common rumors...
Have him getting a “promise” from Boston or New Jersey. But he cancelled on Jersey last week the same day Tyler Honeycutt did. He may have just heard enough “promises” that he figured he didn’t need to work out…he’d let the hype machine carry him to a pick in the 20s. Can’t say I blame him. He grades out as an early second rounder, as far as what I’ve seen.
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Yeah, there's nothing solid about any of them that I could find
Besides, Ainge has sort of said all along he doesn’t want inexperienced players and thinks this draft sucks, which would lead me to believe he’ll trade out or sell. But still, if Reggie Jackson’s camp thinks there’s a ton of first round interest, and he’s coming off of an injury anyway, it would be possible that they’d just gamble on someone taking him and cancel the rest of his workouts, especially if he wasn’t ready.
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Givony also sez...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av3RJHyq9edr1RkfeV9s0oW8vLYF?slug=ycn-8648301
In regards to Minnesota’s #20;
It’s difficult to see Minnesota adding another rookie, considering that they already have two slated to join their roster in Ricky Rubio and the No. 2 overall pick. This could be a prime location for a team to swoop in and take a talented player who is dropping down the board. At 18 years old, Tobias Harris isn’t ready to play big minutes for an NBA team right away, but has plenty of upside. Golden State, Indiana and other teams are reportedly among those looking the hardest at acquiring this pick.
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This is interesting.
As long as we don’t give away next year’s pick, I would rather like this. I say we discuss possible targets at 20 that Bird has his eye on. I would guess it’s Faried, but, unfortunately, I am no psychic.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 16, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Lotta guys I wouldn't mind
JaJaun Johnson, Nikola Vucevic, Faried, Tobias Harris, Nolan Smith, Reggie Jackson, Trey Thompkins, etc etc. Some of those guys may be reaches but there’s probably about 20 guys you can throw in that tier. Wouldn’t be too opposed to a draft and stash of Nikola Mirotic either, now that I’ve read up on him a bit, even if it would be a few years until he’d come over. Big time talent.
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That Nikola Vucvic is supposedly making big noise and being eyed at charlotes later pick...
I guess he was palm a ball in each hand double dunking in one jump. Supposedly blew Jordan and some other guys socks off.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 17, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Darius Morris?
This is a guy I would really like to be our backup PG.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 17, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking more in the now...
But, yeah that’s possible. I think he’d be a really ideal kind of PG since he’s likely to be a distributor. My favorite kind of point guard. I <3 Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Mark Jackson (throwback).
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 17, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I like on Defense
Having a big PG who can defend. If they Pacers are going to get to the next level, I think they’re are going to have to do it with size and physical play. I also think Mack would be a good consolation PG due to his strength and defensive savy. Iman Shumpert could also be a great pick. 6’5" with near a 6’10" wingspan, and very strong for a PG.
But how do we get the pick?
I’ll make a post about it
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Dont Trade Granger
I just have a feeling that Danny will have a breakout year… PG wont have the rookie fear in him, he will take more, better shots and be a prolific scorer. Danny will have shooting pressure taken off when we draft Jimmer so he wont have to chuck up bad shots. We should try to trade Rush and AJ and maybe even Dahntay even though i really like him and think he is a good leader who plays great defense. If we could package AJ and Rush for Maynor than we would be set. But all in all… DONT TRADE GRANGER
Hmm...
I guess you forgot that Danny already had his breakout year. Never fear. They ain’t trading Granger.
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True
Then lets not call it a breakout year. Lets call it, the year we all want him to have and the year we are expecting
Three teamer for the #20 pick
Here’s a possible 3-teamer that would satisfy everyone involved:
NYK gets #15
MIN gets Ronny Turiaf and Brandon Rush
IND gets Darko, Ridnour, #17 and #20
NYK does it to dump Turiaf’s last year of salary and move up two spots. Yeah, they lose a solid per-48 rebounder and shot blocker, but between Turiaf’s salary and the pick they’ll have to sign they save about $2 million. This would only work if LB had a guy at #15 who NYK really wanted (like Alec Burks). From the rumors we’ve been hearing this may be the case…
MIN does it because it saves them an immediate $2 million and close to $20 million down the road between the last two years of Darko and Ridnour’s contracts that they won’t be paying for anymore. This will come in handy when attempting to long-term Kevin Love and/or Anthony Randolf Randolph. Assuming the new rotation is Rubio/Wes Johnson/D. Williams/Beasley/Love, Darko would’ve ridden the pine anyway. Turiaf provides pretty much the exact same thing Darko did (bench rebounding and shot blocking) for much, much cheaper. Additionally (unless they have a deal in place to ship out Jonny Flynn, who’s value couldn’t be lower) they don’t need Ridnour anymore either. These are the closest things to bad contracts the T-Wolves have, and with that starting five and Flynn, Martell Webster, Nikola Pekovic, Turiaf and Randolph coming off the bench, this is actually a pretty interesting team, that will only have like $5 million committed to ONE PLAYER (not counting D. Williams and Rubio) going into the summer of 2012. If they can long-term Love and keep Wes Johnson, they might actually be able to finally lure a free agent with a stupid, Rashard Lewis-level max deal (or whatever the CBA allows).
IND does it because even though Ridnour/Darko constitute “bad contracts” in terms relative to the rest of the T-Wolves’ roster, they’re not that bad, and are still pretty solid additions if their roles are appropriate. Everyone loves to hate on Darko, but he averaged 19/10 and 4 (blocks) per 48 last year. His FG and FT shooting percentages were pretty atrocious, but as a 20-25 mpg backup center, I don’t think you could ask for much more. He’s only overpaid by today’s standards by $1-2 million. There are few better shot blockers in the league who are cheaper or as cheap. As for Ridnour, well, he sucks, and he wouldn’t off-set many of Collison’s faults (he’s even a worse ball handler/decision maker, defender and career three point shooter), but you win some and lose some. At the very least he’s better than AJ Price and is probably cheaper than what you’d have to pay for a JJ Barea-type. If the Knicks really want the #15 and it’s Burks, it probably means Brooks slips to #17. Take him there. Then take Faried, Markieff Morris or Nikola Mirotic with the #20. We could still buy a late first or early second if we saw a good value, and would still be far enough under the cap going into 2012 to long-term Hibbert and pursue one big time free agent if we wanted (even assuming a $50 million cap, we’d be roughly $26 million under it with this deal in place, not counting the cost of signing draft picks).
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Intriguing.
I certainly like idea of adding another pick, adding a little depth behind Roy (even if it is Darko). Ridnour adds next to nothing. Only giving up Rush and 2 spots in this year’s draft is do-able. My only concern would be the degree to which our spending will be handcuffed by the last 2 years of those below average-to-bad contracts when it comes time for free agency next year.
by Abe the Hoosier on Jun 16, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Really it's not that bad
Going into the summer of 2012 here’s our cap situation (approximations):
Granger-$13m
D. Jones-$3m
George-$2.5m
Hansbrough-$3m
Collison-$2m
Total: $23.5m
Assuming under the new structure Hibbert is long-termmable for a fair amount (I’d hope somewhere in the $7 million/year range, hopefully not more than that), that puts you at around $30m.
These two draft picks will probably combine for somewhere close to $4 mil.
Ridnour and Darko=a little over $9 mil. That’s 8 players for roughly $43 mil. Assuming the worst (I think a $50 million cap is a worst-case scenario by that point, though it may get lower than that eventually), you’d have $7 million to sign 7 players. Two second rounders and a 2012 first would equal about $3 mil, then you could sign the other four with scrapings from the bottom of the barrel.
The following year they’d both be expiring for a combined $10 million and could be traded at the the deadline. D. Jones would come off the books. We’d just have to pick up George’s option and figure out whether we want to long-term Hansbrough and Collison.
I think if you really think a guy is special at #17 and at #20 you do a deal like this and keep building without having to commit to any terrible players or Rip Hamilton-level bad contracts. At the very least Darko is sort of a valuable commodity, even if he is, as Simmons calls him, the “human victory cigar.”
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You're right, it's not that bad....
If we’re going to continue the slow, but steady building approach without adding any marquee free agents. My point was only that our ability to offer a max contract to pipe dream players like EJ, Dwight, etc. would be limited, especially if we have a tight cap like the $50 mil. you mentioned. I’m not necessarily advocating throwing max contract money at anyone in particular, but the argument that we can’t win without a true superstar is a pretty compelling one.
by Abe the Hoosier on Jun 16, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right
I just don’t know if we’ll ever be able to lure one (like Howard) or beat out an RFA’s team (like EJ). It doesn’t appear in the stars. The next best bet is to swing for the fences every draft (like going after a guy like Mirotic at #20, via a trade like this one).
Obviously it’s not without it’s flaws…just a thought.
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F@#$ NY Knicks.........
I want something like Rush, Dahntay, and Posey for Flynn and the #20. That is assuming they just wanna get rid of Flynn, but you get my point. I dont wanna trade down so NY can draft our guy. And nothing personal against our guys, but that type of trade would be better for us IMO.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 17, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Minnesota would take our trash just for the sake of getting rid of Flynn
If they did, why would they throw in the 20?
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You know RockGuy.
What happened to your post?
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 17, 2011 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
Too many IFs & Buts
Too complicated as I just got in from a 14 hr shift last night catching bad guys and just started typing jibberish….. Had to remove it. Got another one coming once I think about it.
***Forever Grunge...Man!***
by rockguyinindy on Jun 18, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
10 Trades for Granger I would actually make (some of these have already been discussed)
Trade 1
UTAH gets Granger
IND gets Millsap, Hayward and #12
Trade 2
UTAH gets Granger
IND gets Millsap, Okur and #3
Trade 3
UTAH gets Granger
IND gets Jefferson, Okur and #12
Trade 4
CLE gets Granger
IND gets Varajao, Jamison and #1
Trade 5
CLE gets Granger
IND gets Jamison, #4 and 2012 unprotected (or only top-3 protected) first rounder (I think teams can trade in consecutive years as long as they make a draft pick in one of them)
Trade 6
MIN gets Granger
IND gets #2, Beasley and Webster
Trade 7
MIN gets Granger
IND gets #2, #20, Webster and Flynn
Trade 8
DEN gets Granger
IND gets Wilson Chandler (Sign and Trade), Arron Afflalo (Sign and Trade) and the #22
Trade 9
GSW gets Granger
IND gets Dorrell Wright, Epke Udoh, the #11 and a 2013 unprotected first
Trade 10
SAC gets Granger
IND gets Jason Thompson, #7 and an unprotected 2013 first rounder
That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.
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no brainer......
if we didnt do 4 or 5, we’d be stupid.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 18, 2011 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I pretty much like all of these.
5 is awesome, definitely my favorite.
7 is second for me.
My least favorite is a close match between 8 and 9. I guess I like 9 slightly more.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 18, 2011 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Some yes, some no
Not a fan of 7 just because I think Webster and Flynn are just journeymen, not sure on 8 because while Wilson Chandler is pretty damn good he’s not going to get much better and we’d really struggle to score. They all set a high premium on Danny though and I agree with that.
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a bit off topic but does anyone know if the orlando summer leagues are cancel?
just heard word that the vegas league was officially canceled yesterday. Don’t know if the same goes for the orlando league as well. If so, that would be a disppointment not to see paul george, lance stephenson, and any of our picks hoop it up. Even though they don’t mean much, but it was really really exciting to see Lance and Paul last year. Was really hoping to see if either of those guys improved their game since the season ended.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 18, 2011 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
don't think there's any official word
But I’d be pretty surprised if it happens. This lockout’s going to be long. I don’t really think there’s much for a player to learn in the summer league, but it definitely gives us something to watch. Gonna be a long offseason.
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One more Granger trade I'd do
#4, Jamison and Hickson for Granger. Hickson has a chance to be worth Granger straight up some day, but the #4 makes it worth it to gamble.
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Who at number four is worth that?
Knight or Walker? Jonas? Kanter?
Frankly, after Irving and Williams… there is a huge drop off of average.
That's true
But I figure that if we assume Hickson can make some sort of expected leap (he doesn’t have to play an entire season like he did post-All-Star break, but somewhere in the 15/8, 16/9 range at PF) it won’t really matter who the #4 is. I’d prefer Knight, personally, because I think he’s a great competitor, is very smart, and can effectively back up 2 positions (and maybe even start at the SG if we want to go small…George gives us that flexibility on defense). Also if Kanter slips and is the real deal, it would free us up to trade Hibbert for maybe a pick next year, or two picks this year (the Rockets two picks come to mind). We’d suck, yes, and as I’ve established, I’m good with that. Give me a crappy team with two 2012 first rounders (or one awesome 2012 first rounder) any day over a sort of decent team with one.
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I personally
don’t think the number #4 is worth Granger in this draft.
ANd I don’t know what ot think about Hickson yet. His team was so bad and they had no scoring options… it tends to inflate numbers. I’d need to see another year out of him before I go and think its worth the risk to trade Granger for him.
Fair enough
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I'd do it if you swap in the 1 instead....
but I d still consider it as is. I like Kanter and Knight.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 18, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Binum won't get traded
But the rest may. The only way the Lakers will trade Binum is if the Magic are willing to trade Dwight Howard for Binum and Luke Walton and that isn’t happening the Magic will get better offers for Howard from other teams.
by PatsR18andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jun 18, 2011 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
Who is "Binum" and what are you talking about?
It sounds like I’ve read this post and stumbled into the middle of an argument…either that or you’re just randomly talking about things. Either way, keep up the good work!
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Sorry I meant to say Bynum either way the only way he gets traded
is if the Magic trade Howard for Bynum and Luke Walton and that just isn’t happening. Don’t expect the Pacers to trade for Bynum either the Lakers only make trades they get a way better end on that are god awful hints the Gasol and Kobe trades.
by PatsR18andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jun 19, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But who is talking about that?
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Just wanted to plug this update:
While Scott is playing coy with the media, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst has this:
“Cavs going to draft Irving with first pick,” he tweeted. “They’re scheming to figure out how to get Williams but Irving is top of their board.”
Windhorst also added this in another tweet: “Two players you can talk to Cavs about now: Ramon Sessions and J.J. Hickson. Anderson Varejao not available for just a draft pick.”
Williams likely won’t slide past No. 2 to the Timberwolves, who reportedly have entertained the idea of trading that pick.
As such, the Cavs’ best shot of landing both Irving and Williams might be to have both the No. 1 and No. 2 picks on draft night.
— Ryan Corazza ESPN Insider
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 19, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
I really like Hickson...
…but so far his offensive efficiency is very Roy Hibbert-esque. I don’ know if they’d be a good fit together. However, his athleticism and youth are very intriguing. As long as Indy wouldn’t have to give up the farm, I’d be interested in trading for Hickson.
Windhorst is wrong
Local Cleveland media (which Windhorst used to be) says lots of guys are available, but not Hickson. Look at what they’re doing in Cleveland. I’m sure anyone’s available for the right price, but why do you just openly try and move Hickson?
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Yeah, I totally don't get this
It makes no sense to deal Hickson now. If they were planning on drafting Williams, then, maybe…I guess. But even then, Williams is a 3, Varejao’s a 4/5 and Jamison, well, who cares? He’s expiring anyway. Hickson is cheap and will only get better, I assume (or at least stay the same). I can only figure they’re using him as leverage to obtain that #2, but even then, it might have to be a 3-teamer, as Minny has no use for Hickson.
IND gets Hickson, #4, Webster and Flynn
MIN gets Granger
CLE gets #2
Doesn’t seem worth it from Cleveland’s perspective, but I’d do it.
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IMO
Cleveland should just stick with the number four pick and take the best player left. If it is Kantar then that is a good pick up. If it is Leonard, Vesely, Jonas. All good picks. Keep Hickson and trade davis, Sessions, Varajeo and get young assests or picks and build for the future. they arent going to win anything real soon anyway.
I agree
I don’t truly believe they’ll trade Hickson, even if they do draft Kanter. I don’t see why their frontcourt big man rotation couldn’t be Hickson/Kanter/Varejao. Given Kanter’s injury history, I’d keep Varejao. BTW, I’d probably take those three as my best three post players (over Hansbrough/Hibbert/Foster or McRoberts).
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Hibbert
Hibbert is the only legit 5 on that list IMO. Kantar and Varejao can play it. But the nba is missing great centers. The days of the dominate big man left with shaq. Dwight is a physical beast, but no Ewing, Oneal, Robinson, Duncan, Hakeem! I miss those types of players. I miss the glory days of the pacers!!!
to much time on my hands!!!
Well, the current NBA not having many real 5s
Is exactly why guys like Varejao, Al Jefferson, Al Horford, Kanter (probably) can play the spot just fine
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I like the look of that trade...minor adjustments
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6567yzj
Pacers get – Randolph, Sessions, Webster, 20
Clevland gets – 2nd, Flynn
Minny gets – Granger, 4th
Cleveland does this to get the 2nd pick and have the top two picks. Flynn is a throw in player that has youth and still potention.
Minny gets its guy in granger and still comes out with the 4th pick.
Pacers to it to get a good piont man and an additional pick. They get potential in Randolph and a good role player in webster.
That gives them the 15 and 20th picks. I would still look at getting Mayo and using the other pick to fill a need.
What do you think?
I would want the 4th
But can we get it… maybe give the 15 and take the 4th and 20th…???
The 4th is the whole point
I don’t want to give up Granger unless I get a pick and a youngster, or two youngsters.
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Sessions is interesting and obviously Varejao.....
but IDK what Sessions contract looks like
by Justin Arnold on Jun 19, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty reasonable, dollars-wise
Got 2 more years, but he’d be a solid backup PG. I was slobbering over him getting a cheap shot as our starter lsat year before the Collison trade.
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If they're just wanting to dump the contract
Future 2nd, rights to Andy Betts, some kind of non-entity.
KEEP COACH FRANK
A lot of good points made here.
I am mostly hopeful that Bird tries to get involved in any potential trades that can net more talent without losing the core, much like the Collison deal. I also like Hickson a lot so if there’s a way to jump into the mix in order to acquire him (without losing Granger, or like Luke said, if Granger goes they get #4 and other assets) they should give it a shot.
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Knicks-Utah-Indy 3 teamer
New York wants to move up to Jimmer range, according to a story that came out today. Utah wants to cut some salary and move some older pieces for youth. Indy needs a PF upgrade and some rebounding (among other things). Here’s what I propose:
IND gets Ronny Turiaf and Paul Millsap
NYK gets #12 (to use on Jimmer), Devin Harris, James Posey and Raja Bell
Utah gets #15, #17, Toney Douglas and Chauncey Billups
NYK does it because it gets them Jimmer, and a cheaper version of Chauncey for him to learn under (though Harris’s deal is one year longer than Chauncey’s).
Utah does it because it saves them about $4 million right away, and a total of close to $20 million by next summer, and it while they do move down 3 spots, they also gain the #17.
We do it to upgrade PF (sorry, I believe Millsap is a better starter than Hansbrough, and is better than what we could get in the draft at #15) and add a legit backup center who can rebound and block shots, and is pretty cheap (expiring at $4ish million). We absorb $3 or so million in cap space, but that’s not bad considering we would still have the money to address our wing scorer need via free agency (or via a bought/traded for draft pick).
The question is how desperate Utah is to save money without collecting many more assets the #17 is a nice cherry on top, but if they have to lose Jimmer and a fan favorite (Millsap) to do that and save $20 mil, that’s going to be a hard sell for the fans. If they draft Brandon Knight at #3 though, and think he’s the PG of the future, I could see them giving Harris away like this.
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he's undersized, and a defensive liability
i’d prefer the starting PF of the team to be at least prototypical sized, and good on defense.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
Hail to the Orange.
Hail to the Blue.
Hail Alma Mater,
Ever so true.
We love no other,
So let our motto be
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by wonillionaire on Jun 20, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Who then?
Just wondering if you have someone to suggest. If it’s Hansbrough I don’t think he fits your criteria either.
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i'm not sure yet
but i think the team should wait for that guy to become available, whether through a trade, draft, or free agency. id rather hold onto tyler until we can find a suitable replacement, and save the money.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
Hail to the Orange.
Hail to the Blue.
Hail Alma Mater,
Ever so true.
We love no other,
So let our motto be
Victory, Illinois, Varsity.
Chief Illiniwek lives
by wonillionaire on Jun 20, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a fair point
I guess I’m just impatient. Really, I want Derrick Williams as our starting 3 (then it won’t matter who the 4 is, we’d suck and would probably have our pick between Sullinger or Perry Jones next year). But since I can’t have him because it looks like Bird is more interested in “winning now,” I’d like a guy who’s proven and doesn’t cost that much. Talent:contract ratio guys like Millsap don’t come around that often. I think there are youngsters out there who are riskier, with higher upsides (Hickson comes to mind) but they’d probably cost too much in a trade. There are vets out there who could help us right away (Al Jefferson, maybe) but they’d cost too much on the books. Millsap just representes a perfect situation in that his team may be trying to dump him anyway, and he’s not that expensive or much of a year commitment…and he’s better than Hansbrough IMO.
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Nukem, Hans does 2 things. Kicks ass and chews bubble gum...........
and I heard he was all out of gum!!!
by Justin Arnold on Jun 20, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Quoting Duke Nukem.
Never a bad thing.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 21, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You have got to be F#$^#NG kidding me!!!!!!!!
So instead of Marshon Brooks or any draft pick for that matter we get , Turiaf and Millsap? ??? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Youth and potential!!! Not age, injury, and no upside.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 20, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, got to agree with justin on this one. Luke, how could you even propose something like this?
by latrell spreewel on Jun 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I think Millsap > than #15
Simple as that. I guess I wouldn’t do it if it looked like someone potentially special was going to be there, like Burks, Tristan Thompson or maybe even Jimmer. But if it’s Marshon Brooks or Klay Thompson or Markieff Morris…yeah, check back in a few years and tell me which one you’d rather have.
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Don't forget Faried.........
who I think will be special in this league.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 21, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
IDK why people keep shitting on Milsap
Milsap had a 19+ PER during the regular season… and yet he isn’t any good. Come again?
He isn’t breaking the bank. Our power forwards are balls no matter mow much Hans “hustles”… and all it costs is the 15th pick, a historically bad place to pick, and we get a back up 5?
what is so bad about this again?
Milsap IS good, hes as good as Hans..............
lateral move thats why. Why not drafting what we need, the best player, and. or trade the pick with other assets for an Upgrade and not just more of the same.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 21, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
as good as hans
except for the better shooter, better rebounder, better passer, better defender part.
+1,000,000,000
Sorry, had to do it.
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If we can get Turiaf and Millsap for Posey and #15 I say pull the trigger
Hibbert and Millsap with Hans, Turiaf is a pretty good 4 man big man rotation. I think we can find a good player at #15 but that kind of return is really hard to pass up. You’re right though, I don’t know if Utah would do this. We’re seeing fewer teams do things for just financial reasons, which is a good thing but it makes deals like this more difficult.
I have a feeling Kahn still has friend in Indy from his time here
And whenever he calls them up to just catch up in a “so, how’re the kids?” kinda way someone checks his cell and sees he called Indiana.
With an eye on drafting Arizona’s Derrick Williams, the Indiana Pacers have discussed a package including center Roy Hibbert(notes) and the 15th pick for the Minnesota Timberwolves’ second overall pick, league sources said. Nevertheless, the overture hasn’t gained traction in Minnesota
Thats….I dunno, intriguing. I think it’s more than fair value for Roy + 15, but then where’s Derrick Williams play? Obviously not the 3. I think he’s going to be pretty good, but nothing outstanding. I’d rather just stay the course really.
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Honestly.
If we could get Williams for the low price of the 15 and Hibbert. I’d have to go buy some diapers, cuz I would literally shit myself in a moment of unrivaled bliss that causes my muscles to relax far too much. (ewwwww)
I don’t think it will happen, unless we’re taking back a bad contract too. I just hope something happens on draft night that will be exciting.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 21, 2011 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions
They don't have any bad contracts that aren't worth taking back
But if they gave back Darko and/or Pekovic (two of their worst contracts) and #2 for Hibbert and #15, then if we could sign a guy like Barac or maybe nab Benson in the 2nd…I don’t know. That piques my interest.
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Hibbert and15
for Williams…idk about that. I would probably do hibbert and the 15 for 2 and Randolph. At least you are getting two big men in return. But remember our weakness is the front line. We get rid of our best big, we better get one in return. randolph could play the 5 in the east. But you will have to find a replacement quickly.
randolph will get pummeled at the 5 if he satyed there for 1/3 of the year, William will be a another undersized 4 if they go that route
I just don’t see why we must break up this team after their recent success, this team could possibly win 45-50 wins next season with the same core. We have endure enough years of losing, time to bring back some pride and some fans.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
if this team wins 50 games next year
i would defecate all over myself.
lets just focus on getting to 500…
look what happen to the bucks two years ago
they went from a non-playoff team to 47 win team in one year. I said 45 to 50 as a range, I can definitely see the Pacers win 45, extar year of experience, extra year of chemistry, extra year of development, this team is ready. To be honest if they only play .500 ball that means most of the players did improve all that much.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
500 is the first step towards respectability
and it would be a 5 win improvement, and put us around 6th seed in the East.
4 wins bro, 41-37=4
this year, both the knicks, and sixers finish above .500 and no other team in the east will become significantly worst than last year unless philly trade Iggy, and Atlanta trades J smith or even orlando trading Howard, so if non of those trades get through, and its very likely that most of them won’t, the only way the Pacers move up in the standing is if they improve while everyone else stay the same or regress. 45 wins should be the bare minimum goal next season, especially from what we’ve seen in the playoffs this season and the defense that the Pacers are capable of.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 21, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
only works if granger is set up to trade as the next move
to find a big man to fill a giant giant hole in the middle. Either a big 4 or a 5 (which there aren’t any 5’s)
I’m with Chad Ford in thinking that Derrick Williams is more of a 4 and I’d rather see us trade Granger for the #2 (some players will also have to come back, such as perhaps Beasley and Daro or Pekovic). People on this cornrows get too down on Hibbert, but a guy with his size and ability is more difficult to replace than Granger. In fact, we would just slide PG to the 3 and then pick up a 2 guard in free agency.
I realise that it is very unlikely Bird would ever do that, but I’d rather go the route of taking a step back to go further ahead in the future.
Maybe Tristan Thompson will fall to us, which I think would be the best imaginable scenario. As he didn’t work out for us, does anyone know if Bird has drafted someone that didn’t work out for the Pacers?
More I think about it , you might be right............
other than the pot Shawnes been pretty good for NY.
by Justin Arnold on Jun 21, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What if...
We traded Hibbert, #15 and a 2013 to sweeten for D Will, Darko and Ridnour (bad contracts to further sweeten) then we did one of the following three moves:
A. Trade Granger for Al Jefferson straight up: If Utah takes Kanter they could plug him in next to Favors
B. Trade Granger for Millsap, Hayward and the #12
C. See if WIlliams works out at 4, and if he doesn’t, trade Granger next year for a high pick to get someone like Perry Jones or Sullinger. It would be within the rules, I think, because we’d never be out of picks in consecutive years
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Yes, please.
I would like to go with option C. I think it’d be worth a look to see how they could all play together. If it doesn’t work out so well, just move Granger and, more or less, become the next OKC hopefully.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 21, 2011 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Its sad they want a young Center.
But they are hard to come by. If we trade him and he breaks out we are going to regret it. Hibbert is valuable. He might take just as long to become a legit center as Smits. I say get him a Dale Davis. (Faried) and get a Defensive Center for the second Unit to go with Hansbourough. Kind of like A. Davis and Foster. Idk… im just ready to see what they actually do. Because I bet that what they do hasnt even been on these message boards…lol
Maybe Hibbert, Posey, and 15 for Randolph, Webster, Darko, 2
This way you take back a couple of people they want to get rid of. Give them some expiring money for a deadline trade and still get your big bodies.
I bet you could Move Granger, Jones, Price and the 2, 42 for Gordan and Kaman. But you have Gordan, George, Hans, Randolph, Collison to build around with kaman for a year or so and a couple of good vets in FA to fill the voids. IDK just thinking
I'd rather just take Williams and a downgrade at center (Darko) personally
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I'm not even sure how big of a downgrade Darko is from Roy
Darko seems like a better interior defender (4 blocks per 48 minutes) and if he had offensive options around him (Collison, George, Granger and Williams) could possibly be a starting center on a pretty good team. Don’t hate that move and actually seems like a good fit.
darko did block more shots last season, but that's about it
what else does Darko do better than roy? nothing! Roy rebounds, scores, and passes better than Darko. Not to mention Roy has been in the league 3 years and Darko has been in the league 7 years, we should also project how much Roy will improve next season as oppose to how much Darko will regress.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 21, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Darko's a downgrade, for sure
But he does block shots and pass well for a big. Pretty much 75% of Roy, for what will be, at this time next year, 75% of the cost. Roy’s not moving, it looks like, so it really doesn’t matter.
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That about sums up what I was thinking
he is a downgrade but not a huge one, especially if it meant bringing in Derrick Williams as another offensive option. Roy’s definitely a better offensive player but if our starting center was a 5th offensive option, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t rather have Darko at (like Luke mentioned) 75% of the cost.
hold on bigdawg, exactly how was roy the fifth option last year?
even the most basic stat will tell you that Roy was at worst the 3rd option last year and most of the time he was the 2nd option behind granger. Hibbert was the 3rd highest scorer on th team last year and took the 2nd most amount of shots last season behind only Danny, albeit he did not convert at a high rate, but to say that he was the 5th option is completely wrong.
by latrell spreewel on Jun 21, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't last season
But with this trade, Granger, Williams, George and Collison would all be offensive options ahead of Darko (making Darko’s offensive shortcomings a lot less relevant). Collison, George, Granger, Williams and Darko sounds like an intriguing starting 5 to me.
What can even be out there that is peaking his interest
“I lot of people have been calling wanting some of our players.” Makes you just wonder what people are offering and what and who they are wanting.
A new Trade Idea that has me wondering
Does this trade make both teams instantly better?
Pacers trade – Granger, Price, Jones # 42
Denver trades – Felton, Gallinari, Harrington #22
Denver would love to pair up Ty Lawson, Aaron Afflalo, and Nene with Danny Granger. that would be a pretty good defensive team. They also are not giving to much talent up to get a legit scorer and above average defender and rebounder. They also get rid of Al Harringtons 6 mil a year contract.
Pacers get some great depth out of the deal. Gallinari can score and you take a hit on his defense, but you do not need 5 good defenders out on the floor at one time. You would put a line-up of this of the floor.
Collison
George
Gallinari
Hansbourgh
Hibbert
You can use felton at the two and one and stephanson at the two and one. Harrington is a offensive threat that can give you 10 points and 5-6 rebounds a game in 20 minutues. But here is what I would be excited about. Revisit talks with memphis about rush and the 15 for OJ Mayo. Then at 22 take Tobias Harris. He can play 3 or 4 and will only be 19 when the season starts.
Now your line up is more althletic and defensive, with a lot of offensive in your second unit.
Collison
Mayo
George
Hans
Hibbert
With Felton, Gallinari, Harris, Stephanson, Harrington, Posey coming off the bench. You will need to sign a center, but that is a really deep team. Best part of this trade is that you will have Posey at 7 mil, Felton at 7 mil coming off the books next year. Thats 14 million additional cap space for us to add to our core. I still fill we could make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed and see another 15-17 pick next year and be able to spend some money and make some plays for some really good teams for the future.
Wha?
No!
You’re proposing we take on the worst contract in the NBA for…um…Gallinari, an expiring contract who doesn’t want to be here (Felton) and a crappy pick? Oh wait, you also want us to give up our best player…wow. No.
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Brandon Roy's contract says hello
And probably some others, Maggette, Rip, Gooden’s probably equally as bad
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I don't know
Al has like 4/$25 mil left and a 12.3 PER last year. I’m too tired to do this, but if you’re not, find me a worse PER:remaining money ratio. I mean, I guess Roy could be worse, but it’s not really his fault (Portland overpaid him and he’s always been injured). Al has no excuse. I don’t want any part of any deal that has 4 years left on it, let alone Harrington’s, since he sucks. Maybe “worst” was a bit too harsh. But it’s atrocious.
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No disagreement there
Just saying, there’s some pretty shitty deals out there. Forgout about Travis OutLOL too
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Who are we after?
From Ford:
Sounds like the Bucks are also very open to moving down a few spots in the draft. Both the Rockets (Nos. 14 and 23) and the Pacers (No. 15 and Brandon Rush) appear to be possibilities.
Hmmmmm
For one: yes, if you can trade Rush and move up in the draft do it.
But who are they after? The Big Euro perhaps? Singleton? Ferdette?
Saw that too.
And would love to see any trade that gets Rush out of Indiana, he’s just dead weight at this point.
Moving up a couple spots would ensure that Bird gets one of the three (or four?) players he has his eyes set on taking. I just really hope it’s not Fredette, and in fact, many around the TrueHoops blog gave several reason’s that I can agree with. Matt Moore pretty much sums it up best for me — and Zach Harper puts the most positive spin on Fredette but then mentions him as a bench player. Obviously these are all opinions of guys running blogs, but I feel they are on point with their assessments.
Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: What he can bring from college are great scoring skills and work ethic. What he can’t bring is any expectation of spending 10 consecutive seconds with the ball — which will end a lot of what worked for him in college.
Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live: Jimmer can flat-out play. It doesn’t mean he’s the next Steph Curry or Steve Nash by any means. But getting Jimmer on your team gives you a guy who knows how to score and can get his deadly shot off against most players. I think he can be an extremely valuable combo guard off the bench.
Bret LaGree, Hoopinion.com: If he gets drafted by a team that can leverage his scoring ability and hide his defensive limitations, he’ll be fine. If not, his career might look a lot like Jamal Crawford’s and everybody will be happy for Jimmer when he finally makes the playoffs in 2020.
Matt Moore, HardwoodParoxysm.com: Jimmer’s got such great knowledge of the game. He just knows how to win, you know? Sure, he takes some risks and his decision making can be questionable, but more often than not, it works for him and he sinks your battleship. What? We’re not talking Battleship, we’re talking basketball? Oh, no, that’s a bad idea.
Timothy Varner, 48MinutesOfHell.com: Meh. We’re suckers for good stories. But if Fredette is drafted in the lottery, we’ll know when his story arc jumped the shark. In terms of great college stories, I suspect his will conclude more in the tradition of Adam Morrison than Stephen Curry.
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 21, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure.
But do we need to spend our 1st round pick on one?
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 21, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
where else will we get one?
pay crawford 10mil a year?
I'd rather take Mack in 2nd round to get a combo guard who can score
and use the 1st round pick on a big.
Not putting Mack on Jimmer’s level but I can venture a guess that both guys have similar careers.
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 21, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
im not saying i WANT him
but it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to draft a dead eye combo guard shooter who can score.
I'm not gonna complain if they take Jimmer.
I firmly believe he helps improve the team, I just can’t help but think one of the other guards available could be something more special in terms of getting to the basket and becoming a legitimate scoring option as a starter (allowing Pacers to move Granger and sliding George to SF in lineup).
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 21, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I've only heard of one of those blogs
Translation: Who F*cking cares what they say?
That said, I’m not super high on Jimmer, but again, who f*cking cares what they say? He can score and handle the ball (and most likely pass) better than A.J. Price. Having that alone would have probably earned us 3-4 more wins and maybe another playoff win last year. ‘Nuff said. Are there better options available at #10? God, I hope so (Tristan Thompson, Alec Burks, Marcus Morris and maybe even Jonas Valenciunas or Kawhi Leonard come to mind). But I’d bet my next paycheck it’s Jimmer he’s after.
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Translation: Who F*cking cares what they say?
A bit harsh, don’t ya think? Those blogs are affiliated with ESPN for good reason, they don’t suck. Blogs offer a good voice of reason and, for example, I value the opinions of Tom Lewis and others here at IC. Not every blog is run by guys like that one dude we refuse to name here.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bird was trying to get in the mix for Thompson or Leonard, those two would be great picks if they were there.
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 22, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
So...
We get rid of the 15 and Rush for the 10.
I LOVE it. Just about every guy I want could end up being there.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 21, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
And it even works for Milwaukee if they still want Marshon, because he’d still be there at #15. Hell, maybe the other guy they like (Marcus Morris) will still be there. In any event, it’s a win-win, if by “win” for Milwaukee you mean “have to take on our awful, awful backup SG.”
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I seriously hope that he isn't even considered backup SG at this point.
He should be the kid handing drinks to the backups backups.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 21, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Roy Trade
With the rumor of trading Roy and the #15 for the #2 it got me thinking.
I’m not as high on Williams as many other people, although I do think he’ll be good, what if we then flipped the #2 with Cleveland for the #4 and Hickson. With the #4 we then take Kanter. So we flip the #15 and Roy for Hickson and Kanter.
Do you think this is realistic for all teams and what are you thoughts?
Again...
I’d rather have Williams. I think the difference between him and Kanter is significant enough to say eff Hickson.
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Where do you play him?
If that trade were to go through you, do you want to start him at the 4 right away? I just think he’s too much of a tweener to be successful at the four. If we did all that we’d have what, 3 6"9 guys in the middle? 2 of them above average athletes (in PG & Williams) and one average (DG). I’ve wanted to get more athletic, I’m just not sure Williams is the answer. I don’t think he could bang down low with other 4’s in the league and would fit better as a 3. Who would you compare his game to?
by brandon1018 on Jun 21, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Beasley/Coleman/Skinnier Z-Bo
Chris Webber without the court vision but more range. Dirk with a foot less range and more athleticism. Bulked up Danny Manning in his prime…but with a mean streak. He’s a 3, yeah. But he’s a SPECIAL 3. And he can play 4 if you want him to.
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I don't know about that
I think you’re higher on him than I am, but he has the potential. I just don’t see the need to get more of a logjam at wings and play PG out of position by taking Williams. I’d want to move Danny to open up space for him and blow up the whole team and get a good pick next year. What about doing that same trade I suggested earlier, but for the Cavs #1 unprotected next year? We get Hickson and hopefully something special next year.
by brandon1018 on Jun 21, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bogut?
Pacers have cap to spend and the Bucks want to get rid of it. Milwaukee also has an interest in B. Rush.
How about this:
Pacers receive Andrew Bogut and a future 1st for Rush, Hibbert, and Posey
Thoughts? Is Bogut to risky? Many have the same thoughts about Bogut that they did with Tyson Chandler these past few seasons, but it turned out pretty well for the Mavs.
Bogut seems like damaged goods
is the arm every going to be right?
I don't think he's worth it
I mean, take Hibbert out of that deal and add a future, crappily-protected first, and I think it’s more fair. You can then flip Hibbert for someone else (like explore the #2 trade, or whatever). Bogut’s risky business.
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If Bogut didn't look so unhealthy last year
I’d love it. He’s still really good, far better than Roy ever will be, just don’t know if his arm’ll ever be right again. That fall was NASTY.
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I don't see it
I don’t see the Bucks moving him and why we’d really want him. Bogut & Chandler also have completely different games so I’m not sure about that comparison. I’d take Bogut over Roy any day of the week, but don’t want to trade any 2013 future 1st unless we are getting something special.
Spurs are putting Tony Parker on the market
Looking to get into the lotto, have talked to about everyone in the top 7 or so.
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I honestly
do not know how good Parker actually is. He definitely was the third wheel behind Duncan and Ginobli on those championship teams.
Personally I always wondered how his style would fit outside of SA. He has always been a scorer instead of a passer. He is about to be on the wrong side of 30, which is never good for a guard (except for the few exceptions of course) especially not a small guard whose game is built on quickness.
Duncan is all bout done and Ginobli can’t stay healthy a whole year. It is smart for SA is try and get what they can from Parker before he loses a step.
yeah i never really liked parker
always thought he wasn’t really a true point guard. his defense is also pretty suspect. it’d be interesting to see if any lottery teams take a chance on him.
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by wonillionaire on Jun 22, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Johnny Flynn
Every source says he can be had for cheap. He obviously wasn’t worth a pick over Curry, but he had a decent first season and his second never got off the ground because of a nagging hip injury. I’m not sure quite how cheap Minnesota would go, but what do you think his value is worth to us in terms of what we have and the Wolves may want?
They can have Rush
That’s about it. And I don’t even dislike Rush, but if we take another wing like it’s looking he’s that much farther down the depth chart. Other than that, 2nd rounder. I don’t think Flynn’s very good at all but he’s young enough to take a cheap flyer on.
Personally, I still wanna sign a cheap vet PG. Not even to play much, just mentor, having 3 PGs with under 3 years of experience and all. An Earl Watson kinda guy.
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Theory
Remember when Bird said he had 4 players he liked and was comfortable he’d get one at #15? Then remember when he said he had 3? Here’s how I think it played out in his mind:
The four players he liked:
Jimmer
Jonas Valanciunas
Marshon Brooks
???? (could be Tristan Thompson, but I’m leaning Klay Thompson)
The only way he could be certain one of those guys would fall to him at #15 is if Brooks was on the list. Jimmer makes sense too, as he worked out well for us and Bird likes Jimmer-types. I would have never guessed Valanciunas, but then Bird said there was a guy he liked who wouldn’t play here next year, right around the same time it came out that Valanciunas’s buyout wouldn’t happen right away.
So from what we’re hearing, the Bucks have two major offers on the table for the #10:
- and #23 from Houston
- and Brandon Rush from Indy
The Rockets have made it no secret that they want a center, and are interested in Valanciunas. So here’s what I’m thinking. The Bucks want Brooks but realize that they can get him at #14 or #15 (and possibly even at #23). So they’re trying to get some value for their #10. I think the Rockets will only trade up with Milwaukee if Valanciunas is on the board at #10. If he’s not, I think they’ll keep their picks and draft Nikola Vucevic at either #14 or #23, whenever they feel comfortable he’ll still be available (I bet they’ll go early, since Philly is interested in him too). If Valanciunas is not on the board, I think the Bucks will trade back with us, and Bird will draft Jimmer.
He could totally shock us and go for a guy who we haven’t heard him talk about like Alec Burks. The best case scenario, in my mind, is Valanciunas going before #10 and Bird still keeping the pick (and Rush) and taking Burks, who has a chance to fall if Houston takes Vucevic at #14. Then he can use Rush in a different trade, like for the #20 (maybe a package with Rush+#42) or a later pick (like Milwaukee’s #40, which I’d still take for Rush).
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that was 14 and 23 from Houston and 15 and Rush from Indy...don't forgot about wonky formatting
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NBADRAFT.NET
There latest mock draft has us taking Kemba Walker. Never in a million years would he drop that far but where do i sign up?!?!
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by INdymayneNVegas on Jun 22, 2011 8:08 PM EDT reply actions
Ladies and Gentlemen.
Your backup combo guard. I’d like it.
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by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 22, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Word on the interwebz...
He’s been dropping. Some GM or something (I think) gave him a “Lou Williams” comparison. Teams are starting to get scared of taking him as high as he was being mocked. He would be a great addition…to me he’s basically Jimmer though. Either one would serve the same purpose for this team (which, ironically, is the same purpose Lou Williams would serve if we traded for him).
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Has Chad Ford put his mock out?
I remember someone saying it was pretty accurate and usually comes out the day before.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 22, 2011 8:43 PM EDT reply actions
He usually
puts out about 5 on draft day. He’s had us with Jimmer for 4 weeks, we’ll see what he says tomorrow. The idea of Kemba coming to Indy is great. I’d love to have him here.
They're exactly the same player IMO
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i disagree
they might play the same role for the pacers if drafted (backup combo guard), but their games are different. kemba isn’t really a shooter, more a streaky guy (shot 43% from the field and 33% from 3). jimmer is a guy that can flat out shoot. walker is also less efficient on offense. however, i think walker is better than jimmer at creating his own shot, and maybe a little better at playing the point atm.
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We love no other,
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by wonillionaire on Jun 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
call me crazy, but i think jimmer can be an average defender in the NBA
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
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Hail to the Blue.
Hail Alma Mater,
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We love no other,
So let our motto be
Victory, Illinois, Varsity.
Chief Illiniwek lives
by wonillionaire on Jun 22, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I guess that's what I meant
They’re different, but I think they’ll turn into similar NBA players with similar roles for whichever team drafts them. Jimmer IS a better shooter, so I can’t figure why Kemba has so much higher draft stock.
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I like them both at 15.
I don’t think they’ll be there. Are we moving up? If we do I think I’d rather get Biyombo (I know you don’t like him) or Burks. Both of them live in a much bigger house than Jimmer/Walker (higher ceiling lower floor).
I agree though. They are very similar as far as weaknesses and strengths. I mean Kemba’s a little undersized even for PG spot, while Jimmer is a little slow for PG. Neither were in a situation where they could really win games and show that they were true PGs, but both won alot of games. I’d say either could end up being a solid starting PG or a little used backup combo guard that is kept around in hopes they can find their scoring grove on the next level someday. I’d be very happy with either at 15.
Everytime I think I’d probably rather have Kemba and his speed (a clear NBA talent) I realize that’s a duplication of DC and I think maybe Jimmer’s shooting is better (another NBA talent) complimentary skill for a not-quite-point guard.
Still I think I’d rather take Biyombo, MK Morris, Burks, and maybe Brooks (his one-man-scorer mentality concerns me some though, especially if we keep Granger around)…I might even prefer one of the skinny offensive Euro big men if they fall over either Walker or Jimmer.
peac.e
There are rumors about the Lakers shopping Odom.
1: Odom + Walton for Iguodala
2: Odom for Minny nº2 pick.
I would like to see Odom with the Pacers.
Something like our 15 pick + Rush + Posey for Odom + Walton (Barnes would be better) + their 41 pick
Pacers Forever
That's a big drop off from....
Iguaodala or the 2nd pick in the draft.
I think Odom could clearly help this team….though I have to wonder how hard he’d play at this point in his career on a team like the Pacers after reaching the summit?
The better question would be, is Granger better than Odom? If so, could we get the 2nd pick for Granger? I know there’s probably about 400 related posts, but I’m still a big fan of that one.
peac.e
Maynor!
The Oklahoma City Thunder currently own the No. 24 pick in the first round and ESPN.com’s Chad Ford reports general manger Sam Presti is trying to get into the mid-lottery area.
According to Ford, Presti is offering point guard Eric Maynor to get into the top third of the draft.
Jonas Valanciunas is reportedly the target of the Thunder. — Nick Borges ESPN Insider
Find a way to make the Milwaukee deal come to life then ship the #10 for Maynor and the #24? Is Maynor worth giving up the #10 though? If so, this deal gives the Pacers that extra pick they could use.
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 23, 2011 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
I'm almost positive Valanciunas will be gone by #10
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Lotta ifs
But what’s draft day for. Depends who’s there at 10, but I could potentially dig that deal. I’m a big, big Maynor fan.
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Boston president of basketball operations Danny Ainge has been on record of saying this: “Historically, the odds of a No. 25 draft pick breaking into a rotation is like 6 percent.”
So that may be why reports are surfacing the Celtics are making No. 25 available.
From Alex Kennedy of HOOPSWORLD: “It sounds like the Boston Celtics will move the No. 25 pick. Multiple sources saying it’s available.” — ESPN Insider
“The Celtics are open to moving out of the draft altogether if they can trade their pick for a young player. The Celtics have a $2.4 million trade exception that would allow them to take back a young player without having to send anything in return other than the 25th pick. " — Chad Ford
If Rush isn’t dealt early in the process, this could be Plan B to adding another pick. If I were Boston, Rush for the #25 is pretty decent value, and maybe they can get more out of him (doubt it).
by nickfromnaptown on Jun 23, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions
Didn't know about the trade exception
Always assumed we’d have to take on some money (like JO) to trade Rush to them. But he fills a need (young, plays wing where they are perilously thin, etc).
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Here is what I would like to see happen
First, sign the following FA
1. Josh McRoberts – I think he is still full of potential and we haven’t seen his ceiling yet. In fact, I still like him as the starter over Hans. I know. Call me crazy.
2. Jeff Foster – To me this is a no brainer. If Jeff wants another year or two, he deserves it.
3. Shane Battier – I think he would be an excellent backup for Granger. He is a smart player, plays D, and would be good for the locker room. That said, he is probably too smart to sign with the Pacers. He most likely will play for a contender, but I can dream can’t I?
4. Chuck Hayes – This is the point were you ask what I am smoking. My vote for Hayes is more for Roy’s benefit than anything else. We all know that Hibbert has a lot of trouble with undersized C that are stronger than him. Battling against Hayes during practices is sure to bring about improvement in that area of Hibbert’s game. Beside, even as an undersized C he was still able to average 8.1 rbg, 7.9 ppg, 2.7 apg, and 1.1 spg. That is pretty good production.
I would also like to see Stanko brought over. Then, I would like to see this trade be made:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6zxrpz3
It sends Posey, Hansbrough, and Price (with our 2012 lottery protected draft pick) to Utah and we get Milsap, and Jeremy Evans. Pacers do this basically for Milsap. Evans is a player that may or may not amount to something. Jazz do it for a cheaper, quality back-up PF, a 2012 draft pick, and the expiring contracts.
Starters: Collison, George, Granger, Milsap, Hibbert
Second unit: Hill, Stephenson, Battier, McRoberts, Hayes
Reserves: Jones, Rush, Barac, Foster, Evans
That roster should get us 50+ win this coming season.
It's like we're sharing the same brain...
I love this plan down to Hayes, who is one of my favorite free agent acquisitions, and Millsap, who is one of my favorite trade targets and Stanko, who intrigues me a great deal.
Minor nitpick: We can’t trade even a lottery protected 2012 pick, having not made a pick in 2011 (not to mention that draft will be better and we should stay in it). Also, I’d rather do Rush and a future second (or highly-protected first) for Millsap. That would save them a total of about $13 million over the final two years of his deal, and help clear up the logjam at PF, and would make us a little better than your deal would (while I like McBobs, I disagree that he’s better than Hansbrough…I think it’s clear that both should be coming off the bench though), and save us a little money on not having to sign McBobs. I’d then probably skip signing Battier, though I do love him. I think he’ll be costly and will kind of mess up our wing rotation here…either we’ll have to bench someone who needs to develop or he’ll cost too much to justify low usage. I’d instead go Dunleavy, who would be cheaper and could add much of the same stuff, minus the defense of course. I’m good with just dumping Price, as he’s non-guaranteed. Then signing Hayes, Barac and Foster are all good with me too (assuming Barac can come over). All should be inexpensive and solid.
But yeah, this is very close to my preferred plan.
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Good points
I am on the fence between McRoberts and Hansbrough. I think that Tyler is better now, but Josh has the potential of becoming better than him. The reason I went with Hansbrough in the trade was to make it more attractive to Utah. I think if given a choice of back-up players, they would choose Hans over Rush. I didn’t think about the first round pick thing. So a second round pick in what should be a deep draft should still be appealing to them as well.
I don’t agree about Battier. Who do we have at the wing that needs to develop that isn’t already starting? Rush? Battier is a solid back-up at that position and would make the second unit a force to be reckoned with. Look at the second unit again. It scary (in a good way). And if you exchange either Hill or Stephenson with Jones or Rush, it is still a force to be reckoned with. I can hear the Chicago fan’s complaints already. But, yes, I guess that Dunleavy would be . . . okay.
I was mainly thinking about George and Stephenson
My ideal rotation at 1-3 would be Collison and Stephenson handling PG (30-35 minutes for DC, the rest for Stephenson), George and Hill doing the SG (majority of the minutes going to Hill and 20 or so to George) and Granger and George doing the SF (35+ to DG, the rest to George). That would make it so Stephenson had the least chance of completely screwing us with bad play, but still a solid 15 a night to learn from, plus it would put George and Hill at their natural positions for at least some of their playing time (majority for Hill). I just don’t see how Battier could fit, given that he’d probably demand 20-25 mpg based on his salary.
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Here's a new one
PHI gets James Posey and D. Jones
IND gets Elton Brand
Why Philly does it: With Marreese Speights, Craig Brackins, Spencer Hawes and Nikola Vucevic, they now have enough post depth to be able to feel good about salary dumping their best big man. And what a salary dump it is. This trade would net them a $7+ million instant savings and a $15 million savings next season. They would get nothing back; Posey is completely worthless and Jones, while he has his value, would see even less playing time in Philadelphia than he does in Indiana. So it’s a strict salary dump. But Brand is one of the highest-paid players in the league, playing for a team that barely made the playoffs. It may seem like a terrible deal to get nothing back for him, but the team tried to use Evan Turner (the #2 overall pick) just to get teams to take on his contract this time last year. Getting him off the books for a combined $22 million savings over two years is going to be awfully attractive.
Why IND does it: Last year taking on Brand was a lot scarier. But after playing 81 healthy games with an 18+ PER and 15/8 averages (on 50+% FG shooting), he suddenly doesn’t seem like such a horrible contract. Yes, he’s 32. Yes, he’s grossly overpaid. Yes, he’s undersized. But he can guard PFs and Cs, is still a solid rebounder and is a very efficient offensive player who makes good decisions with the basketball. The second year of his contract could be crippling, and for a deal like this, we’d have to know the CBA cap situation before doing it. But after that year he’s off the books in time to extend Tyler Hansbrough and Darren Collison. We currently have no safe options at PF/C. Brand could provide solid minutes at both, for practically nothing (two guys we’re not using).
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Just two years
But it’s like $35 mil
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JJ Hickson
There’s been talk about Hickson being available. Don’t know if he is or not, but Cleveland’s going to have to make some moves, and I don’t really understand how Hickson fits alongside Tristan Thompson. Either way, if they’re trading him, at this point, what would we have to give up?
Would Rush, Posey and a protected 2013 pick for Hickson and Jamison be fair (save them roughly $8 million on the spot)?
For those who think he’s worth more than this, take a look at his pre All-Star break numbers, particularly his FG percentage. Also notice his career assist:TO ratio, which his horrid, even for a post player. He’s also be only guaranteed for one year, given his impending restricted free agency. This seems like a move more likely than one for a guy with a one year longer deal like Brand, Jefferson and Millsap. No matter how you slice it, Hickson+Jamison, even if they do combine for nearly $18 mil, don’t represent any future financial risk as they could both expire as soon as next summer.
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Also
Hickson’s numbers are nice, but he does not have a significant post game, either facing or back to the basket. He scores most of his points in transition, via putbacks or off the pick and roll.
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I think your offer is a reasonable one actually.
So reasonable, that I would be hesitant to pull the trigger. I’m not sure what the talent pool will be like for 2013, but if it’s anything like 2012, I’d almost rather keep my pick and endure another year of McBrough at the PF spot, rather than blowing it on a couple of stopgap measures.
by Abe the Hoosier on Jun 25, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hate for crappy teams like us to give away picks
for possible rentals. Draft picks are invaluable.
Just a heads up for interested parties
Little Hansbrough signed a one year deal in Germany. Can’t blame him for taking guaranteed cash.
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That was fast
He should do well there. Seems like a Euro-type.
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stanko
I can’t wait to see what this kid has… How old is he? can you imagine 7’2 roy for 30 minutes and then another 7’2 kid for the other 18 min. That is a lot of bodies to protect the rim. I can not wait to next year’s Indiana Pacers. We already went to buy the 22 game selection pack. I have been trying for 3 years for them to do a weekend season ticket package.
I think they should stay away from west. 32 yrs old when the season starts, that doesnt fit. I do like a 3 million dollar C. Landry and a 1.5 million dollar McRob. I would crab both. Bring Stanko over and you have a really deep team.
Go hard after EJ next year and you have a 2012-2013 team that is amazing.
I can't wait for Stanko
Supposedly he’ll be 25 at the start of the NBA season, and from everything I’ve read he’s ready when we are, we just have to buy him out. I think you’re about 1/2 off on both Landry and McBobs though. Landry for $6-$7 mil and Mcbobs for $3-$4 is probably more realistic.
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So...
Is the consensus that Stanko is coming?
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 27, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I used your new-fangled inter-googlez
And the author of this poorly-written piece said he’ll probably be another year, but that Bird “would love him” right now. Author provides no additional details, but it’s from the “Greene County Daily World” so it must be reliable, right? That dude who posts over here, Rafael somethin-somethin is a big proponent of the bring Stanko to Indy campaign, and he seems to be plugged in over there. I don’t know.
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Bruno's got an article called "Could the timing be right for Barac?"
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/blog_brunner.html
4th or 5th entry down. Team seems really interested in bringing him over.
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I'd prefer they bring him over than sign some of the big men.
We don’t really know what we’d be getting with him, but I think it’s a risk worth taking. Not like we need big minutes from him, maybe 15-20.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 27, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If Nikola Pekovic and Timofey Mozgov can be on rosters...
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Hey.
Mozgov is so good that New York painstakingly gave him up for Melo. Donnie Walsh was quoted as saying “Damn it. I just f**ked up. Shit shit shit shit shit. Why did I give them Mozgov?”
>.> this was a work of fiction.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 27, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch this
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/crate.html
Roy wants to put on 10-15lbs of muscle. Knows he’s weak in the lower body. The guy knows his weakness and works on them. He is what he is, maybe an All Star game or two because the C spot’s so weak but never an All-NBAer. But he’s outstanding. I never, ever want to trade him. It makes us better I’ll understand and appreciate it (eventually) but it’s probably a lot like SA trading Hill
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Well.
Here’s to hoping that Roy doesn’t go too far in the other direction. Great guy tho.
Paul George is working with Danny Granger on his scoring.
^not a bad thing
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jun 28, 2011 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
He’s got that Reggie swag on camera. Hella personable, funny, likeable guy. I just wish he had Reggie’s confidence.
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I think Confidence wont be a problem
I really think that he will play his game with all the confidence in the world. I look for him to be a 15 ppg 3 apg and 4 rpg 1.5 spg with us his first year. That would be pretty amazing. That would also take some of the scoring pressure off of Danny. If You could manage to bring Stanko over this year and sign a PF and McBob you would be pretty set going into the season.
Collison
Hill
Granger
Hans
Hibbert
Reserves – George, Stephanson, Jones, Mcbob, Stanko. Thats a decent 10 man roster. But well have to wait and see.
I was talking about Roy's confidence
Depending on how ballsy and competitive it is, he could be an All-Star or have another disappointing year in the 12 points, 8 rebounds and sub 50% shooting range. I have no worries about Hill’s confidence. In fact, that’s the one thing I’m sure about concerning this trade: Hill’s attitude/work ethic/drive to win alone will make us a better team.
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