Danny Granger and the Pacers Off Season
by NasteeNinja on May 5, 2011 5:58 AM EDT
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I have heard alot of interesting trade scenarios and free agency acquisitions situations here on Indy Cornrows. And provided alot of detailed info and great posts with awesome points, which is appreciated from all users. My question is why are alot of people wanting to trade Granger? Mostly in return for Josh Smith of all people? I respect everyones opinion regardless of the situation but that is just absurd. Granger is the 12th best player in the league, not a superstar but better than alot of people in the nba. Especially Josh Smith. Just look at eaches playoff production. Along with the free agents coming up and the superstars production. You can also check regular season production as well.
The only people that I would include Granger in a trade with would be Lebron, Wade, Nowitzki, DRose, Howard, Paul, and Blake Griffinth. But would try to keep him if possible.
Josh Smith is over rated. If we trade him for Granger are team gets significant worse as is. If we were to target anyone via trade it should either be Dwight Howard or Chris Paul. Both are superstars, both contracts expire after next year and both want out of their respected teams. I think NOH and ORL will be exploring trade options from anyone if neither decide to resign. I think the Pacers should try to set up a trade package granted the superstar signs an extension, say 2-4 years. (like Melo trade)
1. Dwight Howard trade scenario
FOR --- Roy Hibbert, Brandon Rush, James Posey (expiring contract) 2 1st round draft picks.(maybe Hans too only if you had too.)
The salaries match up (ORLANDO ALREADY OVER THE CAP) and Orlando gets younger and saves money and then they can go into free agency. Obviously this only works if Dwight really wants out and Orlando is positive he wont resign.
Then we would still have about 10-15million in cap space to get a couple of other players to fill in the roster. Maybe resign Foster and/or McRoberts and go get Humphries and/or Marcus Thornton and/or Nick Young.
Possible Roster
PG--- Collison/AJ Price/ Lance
SG--- Paul George/M. Thornton or Nick Young
SF--- Danny Granger/ Dahntay Jones
PF--- Kris Humphries/ Tyler Hansbrough or McRoberts
C--- Dwight Howard/ Jeff Foster
We get a super star that is dominate in the paint and another scoring option and Granger will be able to complement very nicely. We keep our young potential with Geroge, Collison, Hans and Lance. And good role players with Thorton, Humphries, Jones, Mcbobs and Foster. We become a Championship Contender with this lineup easily if everyone stays healthy.
2. Chris Paul Trade Scenario
FOR--- Darren Collison, Brandon Rush, James Posey , Hibbert and 2 1st rd picks.
The salaries match up and if you look at the NOH roster they look like a team that is rebuilding allready. They get some young core players and an expiring contract and some cap space.
We would still have about 10-15 million in cap space for free agency. we should try to get Marc Gasol And then also go after Marcus Thornton or Nick Young. and Reggie Evans maybe
Possible Roster
PG--- Chris Paul/AJ Price/Lance
SG--- Paul George/M. Thortnon or N. Young
SF--- Danny Granger/ Dahntay Jones
PF--- Tyler Hansbrough/ McRoberts/ Reggie Evans
C--- Marc Gasol/Foster
We get a superstar PG that can take over a game. Danny Granger can play the 2nd scoring option and keep the young potential of George and Hans Then picking up some interior play and rebounding with Gasol and Reggie Evans.
Now the biggest variable is if these super stars want out and their teams know they wont resign and they want to get something before the contract expires.
If the above variables are true then I think we definetly have a chance at getting one of these players and instantly making our team a contender.
3. No trade just FA and the Draft
Now if the Pacers didnt try to trade for anyone and went with free agency and the draft. Then personally I think we should sign Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler and then sign Jamal Crawford and Kris Humphries.
Possible Roster
PG ---D.Collison/AJ Price/Lance
SG --- Paul George/ Jamal Crawford/ B. Rush
SF --- Danny Granger/ Dantay Jones
PF --- Tyler Hans/ Mc Roberts/ Humphries
C --- Gasol or Chandler/Hibbert
We get a better inside presence and rebounding with Gasol or Chandler and Humphries. We get another scorer with Jamal Crawford ( i know he is streaky but 14th in the league reg and playoffs in scoring)
Then we could try and pick up a pf in the draft (Morris bros, Kenneth Faried or Tobias Harris) or we should get another scorer ( Nolan Smith, Jimmer Ferdette or Jordan Hamiliton)
Right now our team needs another consistent scorer and better interior scoring/d/rebounding and preferably someone who can take over at the end of the game. Its been along time coming for the Pacers to be contending again. I have faith in Bird and the higher ups in making the best decision for our beloved Pacers.
Tell me what you think or if you have a better scenario let us know.
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Another Trade Scenario
Michael Beasley
FOR — Brandon Rush and Dahntay Jones (maybe 1st rd pick)
Resign Foster. Then in FA we pick up Jamal Crawford and Marcus Thornton or Nick Young or Wilson Chandler.
Possible Roster
PG - Collison/AJ Price/Lance
SG - George/Crawford or Nick Young
SF - Granger/Thornton or Wilson Chandler
PF - Beasley/Hans
C - Hibbert/Foster
Then use the draft to fill in the roster with another big man or a scorer.
Not a huge Beasley fan, but...
I LOVE the idea of getting him cheaply. Let’s say Minnesota gets the #2 pick and is forced to draft Derrick Williams. No way him, Beasley and Kevin Love can all co-exist in the same starting lineup…none can play center, and Beasley/Williams kind of duplicate each other at small forward. In that case, Beasley might be up for grabs.
I doubt the T-Wolves will want Jones, but Rush+our first rounder for Beasley would allow them to save a few million and get an additional pick. We could even make it a pick in next year’s draft instead of this one, if they were more interested. I just worry David Kahn is going to be a douche about any trade offers.
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PPG don't necessarily mirror the talent of the player.
So, while I love DG, I don’t think he’s a top 12 player. It would undoubtedly be a dream to acquire a Dwight Howard or Chris Paul. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely they’d want to come here, but let’s assume they have no problem. They would need to sign an extension before the trade to make me consider giving up that many assets, Rush aside (I simply can’t resist). I like Marc Gasol and wouldn’t mind him on our team but I can’t see Memphis letting him get away. Thornton would be very nice. Beasley doesn’t interest me much, not saying he’s a bad player, just that he doesn’t really fit what I feel we need at that position. Not interested in Jamal Crawford.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on May 5, 2011 6:51 AM EDT reply actions
Danny Granger is at the least top15 player
Your right PPG isnt everything but Granger showed his potential in the Playoffs. Granted during the last 5mins of the game he was shaky at times and made some bad shot attempts. But now he has experience in the playoffs which is way more valuable than the regular season. For being the 1st time in the playoffs I think he was definetly the 12th best person in the league. Also on that link check all the other stats from the playoffs and Grangers numbers show he is close to the top 10.
Now I know alot of people keep saying it is doubtful any real super star will come to indy. I think we actual do after our outing in the playoffs. The thing about Howard and Paul is they both want to win at this point and I think that is the deciding factor. It was sad how the Magic and the Hornets played unaspiring and weak most the time. If you take either of those players off their team, they dont go to the playoffs.
Both these superstars are hungry and want to win and both have lived in the big city. I think they would be willing to go anywhere that gives them the best chance to win. Regardless if its a smaller market. Our team would be awesome with one of these superstars and I think everyone in the league saw how good we played in the playoffs without one.
I agree with you with Gasol but we should at least try and drive up his price if anything.
Beasley averaged almost 20 pts 6rbs a game. He is young and explosive and had some big games. Now granted his rebounding and defense isnt awesome but he makes our team better. I would even trade hibbert to get him if we could gurantee getting Chandler or Nene in Fa. And even with Hibbert he makes us better.
Why not Jamal? I know he is rather expensive but he gives another 20 + a game, especially in the playoffs. Look at his production in the playoffs. Before yesterdays game he was the highest scoring on average for the Hawks and 14th in the league and he came off the bench doing this. We need another scorer and veteran leadership. He gives us both and we get better instantly with our current roster.
Jamal Crawford is an inefficient offensive player and he is a liability defensively.
He takes poor shots, which is evidence by his career line of 41% fg. I feel like he’s fooling people with his 1st season in the ATL.
My biggest point about the superstar is that they MUST sign an extension before they come here. I don’t want them coming for all that stuff we gotta give up and then just up and leaving the next year in free agency. Between the two of those guys though, I will say I would prefer Chris Paul, because I think he’d really make the whole team better. I think everyone’s numbers would go up in this scenario, if we could convince him to come here I think I’d wet myself.
I still don’t think Granger is a top 12 and the playoff stat line is misleading, because you’re assuming that all the best players made it into the playoffs.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on May 5, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for being realistic, but I have to still disagree with some points
This post is much better than some peoples’ ideas that we can just outright sign a guy like Howard, CP3 or D-Will, and the packages you’ve put together, that focus around picks, young guys, expiring contracts and outright cap savings are pretty attractive ones.
However, I don’t think they’re attractive enough.
1. The Magic are in desperation win-now mode. They’ll go all-out to win a title before Howard gets a chance to skip town (maybe for LA), so I doubt they’ll be going the Denver/‘Melo route. Even if Howard makes it clear to them that he won’t re-sign, I have a feeling they’ll look for more in a return trade than picks/Hibbert and Hansbrough (who you’d most likely have to include). Like I said, that’s an attractive offer, but you have to think there are going to be 20+ other teams that will want him and have more to offer. Los Angeles, in two summers, could just send Bynum, Odom (both possibly expiring with team options the following year), Shannon Brown and picks for Howard and the Magic’s worst contract (Turkoglu). I have a feeling offers like that for Howard will be commonplace. If Bird Rights still exist, LA will have no fear of taking on more salary to win another title for the twilight period of Kobe’s career. Gasol/Kobe/Howard will be a pretty formidable trio.
2. I like the idea of CP3 with Danny. I think that would be lethal, and there’s probably something to New Orleans trying to get something out of Paul before he opts out. If the CBA doesn’t completely screw his potential salary increase for 2012-13 if he does opt out, I can totally see him telling them next season to start fishing for a trade. I think he loves New Orleans, and is committed to the team, but that’s just an impossible situation that, I think everyone realizes, is just going to get worse. Paul is the only thing holding that team together and making them relevant. But I think we’d have to agree to take back bad money to get him here if we’re not giving up Granger or George. They’d have to at least entertain the idea of something like Posey, Rush, Hibbert, Collison and 2 future picks for CP3 and Emeka Okafor. It would save them $14ish million off the books immediately and $27 million of Okafor’s money off the future books. We’d absorb bad salary, and have to sign vet minimum-types to fill out the roster (and not jeopardize our chances at extending PG and Hansbrough) but it would be worth it. If Bird Rights remain the same, I could totally see this being viable (of course we’d have to have a commitment from Paul that he would re-sign the max with us).
Also to your Josh Smith comments, I don’t understand trading Granger for Smith either, but I don’t think he’s overrated. If anything, he’s underrated…he’s the most impactful player on that roster, but he’s also expensive and polarizing, so if they suck next year like they did the second half of this year, they might be inclined to salary-dump him at the deadline, which, as long as it didn’t include Granger, Collison or George, I’d do in a heartbeat, regardless of how many picks we’d have to throw in.
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Josh Smith
I agree if he was added to our current roster he would be decent. But I have been watching him in the chicago series and compared him to our bigs.
Josh Smith 10pts and 6rebs against Chicago
Tyler Hans 11pts and 5.4 rebs
Hibbert 10.4pts and 6.8 rebs
He also played slow and lathargic. He did have a couple of big blocks and a couple of dunks but that was it. I know he is good but dont find that very impactful and havent seen him really impact a game in the playoffs yet. Our bigs will be better than Josh Smith in the next 3yrs
I disagree that our bigs will ever be better than Josh Smith
And you’re basing your judgement on a very narrow sample. I’ll admit that Smith plays without passion from time to time, but he’s exponentially more talented and athletic than just about anyone on our team.
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I think Josh Smiths real value comes on defense and the occasional dunk.
His dunks and blocks are the type of plays that can swing momentum in a very positive fashion for a team.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on May 5, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
DWill
What about Collison/McRoberts/Rush + 1st round pick for D Will if he wont’ sign with NJ? I think this team would be pretty competitive with that potential starting lineup.
i will take back every bad thing i ever said about larry bird
if he manages to get in my opinion the most complete point guard in the league without giving up danny.
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by wonillionaire on May 5, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But not the same situation as Carmelo
There were two reasons the Knicks were able to trade for Carmelo.
1. They had a great young group of guys that Denver liked
2. More importantly, Carmelo forced Denver’s hand by saying he would only sign an extension in New York.
What are the chances Williams, Paul or Howard comes out and says they will only sign an extension in Indiana? Ha! Come on, now! We’re not fleecing anybody on any trades for any superstars. We’re going to have to give up multiple picks and one (or perhaps 2) of our young guys, along with all of our expiring contracts (or take back bad contracts).
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IE...the team we're trying to get a superstar from would have ALL the leverage
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That's crazy
No way they ever do that. It would mean their net gain from Devin Harris, the 2010 #3 pick (Favors), what’s likely the 2011 #6 pick and maybe an even better 2013 pick (because they’ll obviously suck in 2013) would be Collison, a re-signed McRoberts, Brandon Rush’s expiring contract and a middling first rounder. Wow. I mean, how could you think they would do that?
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Like I said, I don't do contracts
But if DWill says that there is no way that he re-ups with NJ, shouldn’t the Nets look for something to cut their losses? No way they accept a trade from NYC to thin their already thin fan base. I think Collison – third year PG – would likely be the center piece around the trade. Mix and match pieces to fit.
It’s not the worst idea in the world.
But if DWill says that there is no way that he re-ups with NJ, shouldn’t the Nets look for something to cut their losses?
Yes, but they’re not in a position where they are forced to trade to the Knicks. Next summer, if D-Will doesn’t re-sign (and doesn’t say he’ll only sign with New York…highly unlikely that he’ll say that given that he’ll probably have to take less to play for NYK than what he’d make with an extension) there will be dozens of teams after him, and many will have more to offer than what you proposed. The only way I see us getting him here is by offering up Granger and at least two future firsts (probably next year’s included, since it’s a deep draft) and also agreeing to take back Travis Outlaw OR send George, Collison, multiple future picks and take back Outlaw. Those would both be offers that would be competitive compared to what they’ll be seeing from other teams, I bet.
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Ridiculous
I stopped reading this post right when you said that danny granger was the 12th best player in the nba……
Bold, but maybe not realistic
If you’re right about the money… then I like the bold moves for sure. I just don’t think the other teams will go for it, but what do I know!? The Howard trade looks like it makes the most sense. For the others, I just don’t see how Memphis or Dallas gets rid of Gasol and Chandler. They both had near career years, but maybe they won’t be paid enough? It’s an interesting thought for sure. I like Hibbert / Deandre Jordan as a better fit. A nice 1-2 punch. Jordan also reminds me of Antonio Davis (which I like a lot)
Also, DG as 12th best player? Let’s see:
Dwight Howard, CP3, Lebron, Wade, Nowitzki, DWill, Carmelo, Durant, Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, Zach Randolph, Aldridge, Stoudemire, Blake Griffin……
Wow, you’re not that far off….. Wake up Granger haters!! (12 is a little high, but top 20 is still money)
Good post!
take it back about Orlando
I thought maybe Dwight only had a year left or something…… but no way they trade him with 2 years left, to be replaced by Hibbert who remains unproven (especially compared to Dwight).
Orlando will have some tough decisions soon, but they will no doubt tweak their lineup yet again and make a run (yet again) next year. I’m sure they are sweating, but they’ll figure out how to be more competitive than this year (which was a flop).
Anyhow, I digress…. I still like the idea of being bold. Bold moves is usually what it takes with trades. I think of how Boston and LA got Garnett and Gasol respectively, which both turned into rings. The Gasol move was sort of a coupe, but maybe Memphis knew that Marc was going to be special.
We probably won’t see anything happen for months and months though…. b-o-r-i-n-g.
He has a PO after next season
Then a set-salary for 2013-14. Summer of 2012 is his opportunity to test the waters. His contract was structured that way for that specific purpose. But if the new CBA lowers salaries significantly this may all become moot, as the $21 mil he’ll make by picking up his option may be a TON more than any other team is allowed to offer him.
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So why are we talking about him?
I thought it was something like that, so basically he’s in Orlando at a minimum next year, probably 2 years?
He's in Orlando this coming season for sure
He’ll then be in the same boat that CP3 and D-Will are in, and that Carmelo was in. More than likely, he’ll be there for the next three years. But if he feels like they aren’t going anywhere and there’s a window of opportunity to get out (most likely to LA) he might take it.
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