Free Agency-Part 4: Point Guards
by LukeNukem on May 3, 2011 8:22 AM EDT
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In the last of my free agency series FanPosts I'd like to cover what I consider to be priority #4, the backup point guard spot. While I feel a scoring SG, a backup or starting-caliber PF or a backup center should be higher priorities, that doesn't mean there aren't some gems to be had at the point position.
So far, of the guys I've highlighted, this is how the community has voted:
Shooting Guards-Marcus Thornton is the overwhelming favorite with 39% of the vote
Power Forwards-Re-signing Josh McRoberts is the slight favorite, with 29% of the vote, followed by bringing in former Boilermaker Carl Landry, with 22%
Centers-DeAndre Jordan is the favorite with 30% of the vote, followed by Greg Oden with a surprising 19%
The following are the point guard options, again grouped by price. The class is shallower, so I'll include only two "expensive" options and two "cheap" ones.
The "Expensive" Guys
1. Aaron Brooks
Type: RFA
2010-11 Pay: $2,016,691
Qualifier: $2,976,637
Estimated Open Market Value: 5 years, $26-32 million
Strengths: A dynamic scorer with dominant quickness and ball handling ability. Unlimited range on his jumper and no fear. One of the best pull-up jump shooters in the league; compares favorably to a young T.J. Ford. An excellent free throw shooter. In the right system, could provide valuable combo guard minutes at both backcourt spots. Injury and limited minutes in 2010-11 helped stifle his value-is only one year removed from 20ppg season and could be a steal to any team willing to beat an offer from Phoenix.
Weaknesses: Very undersized for his skill-set. Not much of a distributor for someone who's built like a PG only. Can get shoot-happy and ball dominant. Doesn't look to create for others first. Makes bad decisions and turns the ball over too much. Has a scoring guard's mentality, but cannot adequately defend larger shooting guards. At 27, career may have already peaked. Phoenix may match any offer in an attempt to make Brooks the heir apparent to Steve Nash.
Type: RFA
2010-11 Pay: $2,767,126
Qualifier: $3,868,442
Estimated Open Market Value: 5 years, $30-38 million
Strengths: Great size with the handles and vision to play point guard but the body type to guard wings. Plenty of experience playing off the ball and running an offense. Can score in a variety of ways. Unafraid of contact and gets to the line at an adequate clip. Strength and tenacity allows him to be a freight train driving the lane. An above average defender with quick hands. A natural facilitator who was never given the time to shine in Detroit, operating within a system that didn't favor his abilities.
Weaknesses: Struggles with shot selection. Very streaky and can get into slumps very easily. A pretty terrible long-range shooter with a somewhat slow, choppy release. Is a great natural passer, but still needs a ton of coaching; can get a head of steam and develop pretty drastic tunnel vision on the break, which backfires against teams with good defensive reaction time. An energy guy and an overachiever. Has he reached his peak, or will he respond to more coaching? Pistons will likely match all but the most lucrative offers...
The "Cheap" Guys
1. Mike Bibby
Type: UFA
2010-11 Pay: $450,727 (pro-rated)
Estimated Open Market Value: 3 years, $9-14 million
Strengths: A savvy vet with a wealth of starting experience both in the regular season and playoffs. Part of the most successful Sacaramento Kings teams of the early 2000s. Still durable; has played in 79 or more games in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Considered old, but is only 33 and won't turn 34 until the end of next season...probably has a few good years left in the tank. A solid career three point shooter known for his quick first step and fearlessness under pressure.
Weaknesses: Never a great passer because with Chris Webber and Vlade Divac (and now LeBron James) on his teams, he never had to be (averaged more than 6 apg just twice since 2001). A career volume shooter; as he's gotten older and become less of an offensive focus for his teams he's settled for jumpers more often and become less relevant offensively. Has clearly lost a step, and during his time with Miami has become rather turnover-prone. More of a lockerroom value than a performance one, at this point in his career. Probably a little pricey for a vet his age, but will likely draw interest from contenders, and may take less money to win a title (especially if he doesn't win one this year).
2. Jose Juan Barea
Type: UFA
2010-11 Pay: $1,815,000
Estimated Open Market Value: 4 years, $15-21 million
Strengths: A fundamentally-sound, hard-nosed and energetic player. Classic international style. A natural creator who can make jaw-dropping passes in the half-court set, and is always looking to get a fast-break started. Absolutely fearless in the lane; riminscent of a point guard version of Manu Ginobili. Will likely be available as Dallas is in a tough salary cap situation this summer and seemingly have already chosen youngster Rodrigue Beaubois as the successor for Jason Kidd.
Weaknesses: Listed at 6'0 but he's clearly in the 5'9 range (look at him standing next to Jason Terry). Gets wild and too flashy in the lane sometimes, as he insists on securing the ball with only one hand in traffic. Won't provide much help defensively; has quick hands but is easily backed down by bigger guards. Doesn't look for his jumper very much and isn't a very efficient jump shooter; needs to be in a rhythm to knock them down and cannot pull up off the dribble and knock one down with a guy in his face. Has very limited starting experience and will most likely never be a consistent NBA starter.
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Im happy with the way AJ Price & DC performed against CHI….DC really grew up until he sprained his ankle in game 2
Keepin it KFC as always (Kool, Funky, & Clean)
Why this post??
We traded for our point guard of the future with DC! Why would we make moves to acquire another “potential starting” point guard??? DC did great once JOB left town and will continue to grow…if you can’t get excited about DC and his future, I’m not sure what you can get excited for!
I agree with Smiff, DC and AJ really grew during the playoffs…did they make some dumb moves and take some dumb shots, yes. But that’s to be expected, they are young and learning. I can say the Pacers don’t need to spend ANY time this offseason on a point guard. I’m extremely happy with DC has my starter and AJ as the back up (With Lance waiting in the realms!)
by BringbackReggie#31 on May 3, 2011 9:16 AM EDT reply actions
Heh?
I never said that these should be starters. Read it again:
In the last of my free agency series FanPosts I’d like to cover what I consider to be priority #4, the backup point guard spot
But ANY backup PG you’re going to pay needs to have the ability to come in and play consistent minutes as a starter if necessary, and right now we don’t have that. I’m sorry, A.J. Price is an absolute liability and Stephenson is a complete mystery. Coming into next year we’ll have three PGs with a combined 5 years of NBA experience. This is no knock on Collison (though he is NOT without his faults), nor is it a call to replace him…it’s a very simple need, and one that can be cheaply addressed in free agency.
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This need is probably better served through the draft
I feel like we would certainly have to overpay any of these guys considering they would come in as the backup. Only Brooks could contend for the starting job imho.
I think that AJ has peaked somewhat. If we can get a better point guard then him I say do it. We don’t know if Lance will pan out yet as a PG so we need to either re-sign Price or draft someone else who can play this spot.
Obviously we are not drafting in Kyrie Irving or Brandan Wright territory, but I have a feeling Jimmer could fall to 15. If the Morris boys and Terrance Jones are gone there, I think Jimmer is a low risk pick there considering his proposed role.
It look like there could be some value in the second round here too.
In the end, if we don’t draft a better PG than Price, I think we can retain him for less than the market price of any of these guys. Only Brooks is an obvious upgrade but I just don’t think he wants to be the 6th or 7th man off the bench when he could be starting for the Suns eventually.
Eh
First of all, I assume you meant Brandon Knight? No, we won’t be able to draft him. I also doubt we’ll be able to get Kemba Walker (Charlotte supposedly likes him, as do plenty of other teams I’m sure after that huge tournament) and we may not even land Jimmer. If Jimmer’s gone we’d be looking at reaching on Nolan Smith or trading back for him or hoping a guy like Selby falls to us in the 2nd. Either way, once you start getting into that territory it starts making less sense to draft someone and more sense to just sing someone.
In my opinion ALL of these guys are better than Price and ALL would’ve stepped in and not lost game 2 for us in Chicago like he did. A backup PG with quality NBA experience OR good college experience OR the ability to also play starting or backup SG would go a long way for this team.
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i agree
i think if jimmer doesn’t fall to us (no way kemba will), we should take him. if not, i think we should wait till the 2nd round and take demetri mccamey. he’s big, 6’3’’ 200 lbs, experienced (4 year player), and has the skills that the pacers need from a backup pg: very good handles, good vision (tho he does play slightly out of control at times), very good 3pt shooter (45% from three while taking 5 a game), and most importantly, he can create his own shot, as well as penetrate the lane
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by wonillionaire on May 3, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How about
If he stays in the draft(he may not, being only a junior and looking at being a second round pick right now), Shelvin Mack in the second? I personally believe he would be an upgrade over Price, and being from Butler, he can most definitely defend
If he stays in the draft the belief is it's because he's been given a first-round promise
Not picking until 45, I doubt the Pacers have a shot at him in the 2nd. I like him a lot, but also, he’s not an NBA PG. Ball handling and passing are sub-par at best.
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I chose Stuckey since he is the closest to my ideal.
I believe we can get an upgrade over AJ. Price’s strength is supposed to be offense but he is largely unreliable, he dominates the ball and shoots a low percentage, doesn’t bode well. I think we need a defensive minded backup PG behind DC and use other players on the second unit to bring the offense. Ideally, those other players would be a free agent SG (Thornton) and Hans, who would be replaced in the starting lineup by a defensive, rebounding 4.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on May 3, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions
getting Stuckey to backup DC and play wing minutes would be interesting
but I think I’d rather have Thornton. Bibby? No thanks. I voted for JJ because he’d be a good energy guy, but if I’m in charge of the Pacers, I wouldn’t bring in Thornton, two big men AND a backup point guard through free agency this year. The market is limited and just about everyone we bring in will be overpaid to a degree.
Anyway, as you’ve said before, this team has more pressing needs. Bird believes in Lance (questionable) and AJ is cheap for another year. Considering we’re not gearing up for a title run anytime soon, I’m fine with keeping AJ as a backup, seeing what we get out of Lance and reevaluating the position next year.
Best case scenario, Lance ends the year as the backup and does really well. Otherwise, he and AJ underperform and we look elsewhere in free-agency or the draft.
I concur...
with bigdawg.
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I agree with having a solid defending point guard
I wonder what it would take to pry away Avery Bradley from Boston?
by gut19 on May 3, 2011 9:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with having a solid defending point guard
I wonder what it would take to pry away Avery Bradley from Boston?
by gut19 on May 3, 2011 9:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
More cheerleading for the defensive bandwagon.
While it never hurts to have defenders, I must have been watching a different team this year than you guys. Aside from the occasional offensive outburst, consistent scoring seemed to be our biggest problem to me.
AJ may have not performed up to expectations, but remember, he was only a second year backup who didn’t get any time to improve his game in the offseason because of his injury. If not AJ, I’d go for Barea because A) He’s cheaper B) He’s a facilitator off the bench.
The Piston's handling of Stuckey is mind-boggling
That guy has shown flashes of being able to dominate but they constantly jerk him around. If he wasn’t on a rudderless team like the Pistons (who I believe have a lot of talent but are the worst coached team in the league), he would be a much more productive and efficient player. His FG% isn’t where you want it, but he has a very unique game that a good coach could get a lot out of. Gosh, he absolutely destroys DC….
I think stuckey would be a perfect back up
got the size DC lacks and can also play some SG on occasion.
I think he will cost too much though.
I don’t like AJ Price though. Yes he is fearless blah blah blah but people remember his hot games and forget the ones he is downright terrible in.
And he has the most limited skill set on our team...aside from maybe Jeff Foster
Literally ALL Price does well is shoot threes, and he does that streakily. Last year he showed glimpses of being a decent halfcourt facilitator, but it’s like he regressed this season, especially against the Bulls.
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I would actually love to have Stuckey as a 6th man. He can play both guard positions and is a matchup nightmare at the point.
A lot of people are voting for Stuckey
I like him, but that’s quite a pricetag for a backup. He’d be making probably 3 times what the starting PG makes. I don’t know if that’s a problem, it just seems a little backward.
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I think Stuckey would be a great backup. His size is sorely needed. It drove me crazy when a team with a big point guard would post up DC and we had no answer to it. Do you really think he would cost that much? Detroit didn’t seem to interested in him. Weren’t they using a lot of McGrady at point towards the end of the season?
Barea
I’ve mentioned my interest in Barea before and I’ll do it again. From a perspective of accessibility (unrestricted FA), and realistic cost, Barea is the best option on this list. The size thing doesn’t bother me so much because he won’t be playing major minutes and just because a guy has size it doesn’t make him any more effective on defense than a small player…AJ Price is a perfect example of a PG with ideal size, but not necessarily a skilled defender. I think Barea would make an excellent backup PG and he’s already proven it in Dallas.
I’m positive that Aaron Brooks wants another shot at starting, I doubt Stuckey wants to be a backup and both players will demand far more than backup compensation to get them out of restricted FA. Now if someone would rather have Stuckey than Collison as the starter, then it would make more sense to me to pursue him.
Agree to all
In fact, this is the first of these posts that I’ve actually voted for and I voted for Barea. I think he’d be to us what Jasikevicius was supposed to be: 15-20 mpg of energy and solid ball control off the bench. He can’t shoot like Sarunas, but he’s a helluva proven passer and I think fans would love him.
As for DC, I think that if someone wanted him as part of a trade package that we couldn’t turn down, Stuckey would be a GREAT replacement…but it’s unrealistic to think he’d be a backup.
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crawford
We need Crawford from Atlanta and bring him off the bench as a 6th man, either back up PG or back up SG. This guy can score in bunches, and as long as he is not leaned on as a #1 player, he is great. Then I think we could possibly get away with dealing Granger for Josh Smith. That trade only works if the Pacers can bring in Crawford. I think George, Collison, Hibbert, and Hansbro all improve enough for us to make up for Danny’s scoring. The only reason Danny scores is because he takes the most shots, and he takes alot of bad shots. Granted, he was good in the playoffs, but he still took alot of bad shots, and whoever started a rumor that Danny was a good defender is retarded. He couldn’t guard Deng the entire series. Pacers’ fans need to get off of the Danny Granger band wagon.
Uhm
If we got Crawford, and then traded Danny for Smith, Crawford would be starting not 6th man. Just sayin.
And personally, I dont want Crawford, who shoots to much, or Smith, as he would take to much to get. Granger is better than Smith, and cheaper as Smith may demand a max contract.
Other
I voted other. The Pacers are fine with Price as their backup. Option 2 would be to draft a PG. If they feel the need to spend the money for a backup, they could go for Goran Dragic of the Houston Rockets. He has a team option for $2 million over the 2011 season. It’s up to Houston to pay him, or turn him loose to free agency. The Rockets acquired him from Phoenix in the Aaron Brooks deal.
Dragic has been in the league for 3 years and is only 25 years old. He isn’t a starter, nor will be make starter money on the open market. It won’t cost Houston a ton of money to retain him as their backup for one more season. But, if they let him walk, a 3 year, $8 million contract isn’t unreasonable (even though he’d be the highest paid PG on roster).
He’s a lethal 3 point scorer (.378 career 3pt average) and attacks the basket extremely well. He handles the ball well and has a high basketball IQ. He plays hard and is a great “electrifier” off the bench.
He isn’t a high-volume assists guy and would be counted on more for his scoring than distributing. He’s not known for his defense, but at 6-3, 190 lbs, he’s bigger than Collison and could be used to match up against larger PGs in the league. I think he’d be an excellent scoring option with a second unit playing 15-20 minutes a night behind Collision.
However, I feel the Pacers would be wise to spend their money elsewhere. PG isn’t a major concern this offseason.
The FAULK
Dragic
I LOVE Dragic, but didn’t include him on this list as an RFA because, well, he’s not (he has a team option) and contrary to what you say, he’ll be very affordable for the Rockets to retain. If they don’t pick up his $2.1 million option they’re absolutely stupid. I don’t see them thinking that small chunk of money will derail the rest of their summer plans. With Yao coming off the books they can pick up Dragic and still be an estimated $10 million below the cap. He’s a perfect fit for them, and a quality backup for cheap. Again, if you don’t think backup PG is a concern for this team, I fear you haven’t watched the near constant occurrence of Price jacking up ill-advised shots at the wrong times this year, or more importantly that one time where not having any PG depth pretty much single-handedly doomed this team in game 2 of the playoffs.
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I understand Price isn't the answer
I don’t think Price’s problem was his ill-advised shooting as much as it was his inability to maintain control of the ball in crucial times of games. I agree with your sentiments that Price isn’t the long-term solution to backup point guard. However, I feel we have areas of greater need going into the offseason: scoring guard, defensive and rebounding center/power forward.
That’s why I think it would be wise to draft a point guard with a better skill set than Price. The great thing with such a weak draft, teams in the middle of the first round can target need. There are some terrific backup PGs that will be available in the middle of the first round: Jimmer Fredette, Nolan Smith, Darius Morris, and Josh Selby are potential mid-first round targets at PG. I even think there are some gems in the second: Shelvin Mack, Demetri McCamey, and Ben Hansbrough, who could still be upgrades over Price.
Paying for a backup isn’t cost-effective for the Pacers. Any player they target will be more expensive than Collison. Their better option would be to target a PG in the draft and use the cap money to go after a scoring guard (Crawford, J.R. Smith, Marcus Thornton, etc.), or defensive big (Nene, D. West, Kris Humphries, etc.).
The FAULK
by incredibleFAULK on May 4, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
How in God's name did the Suns give up Dragic AND a pick
for Aaron friggin Brooks? Totally astounding to me. What a steal by the Rockets. I think Dragic is a starting caliber PG… and a good one at that. Excellent passer and jump shooter, but also a surprisingly effective finisher at the rim. I can’t say I’ve paid any attention to his defense, but I’m assuming its marginal at best. That game he had last year against the Spurs where he scored 26 points in the second half.. that was one of the most insane performance in the past few years in the NBA.
He's got potential for sure
He needs coaching. He can get a little shot-happy. With his speed and vision it’d be nice to have seen him learn a little more about passing from Steve Nash. But yeah, I think he compares favorably to Darren Collison…but bigger (maybe not quite as fast, but close).
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Why would we pay big money this offseason if Larry's still waiting to see how Lance pans out?
I wouldn’t do anything with the position this year
especially if we have AJ for really cheap next year
he’s not the long term answer but I’d rather not force a position that, like Luke said, isn’t very deep. Let’s go after Thornton, Evans/Dalembert and get better in the draft. Bird said he wouldn’t spend all his money at once, so why not make a couple signings and save some until next summer?
Apparently you weren't watching game 2 of the playoff series
It’s a big need. If A.J. Price were good in any way we would have won that game and at least brought it home for a game 6. If the aim is to immediately improve, a modest PG signing isn’t a bad idea. I doubt signing a guy like Barea would jeopardize the team’s ability to make a bigger splash at another position of need.
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I mean I can get down with Barea
Stuckey just seems exorbitant and even Barea seems like a stretch. Price would need to be totally benched because we’re in the last year of Lance’s contract and Larry wants to see if he can play.
I don’t think the upgrade JJ brings is worth paying him 3-4 million per year for the next four as opposed to addressing it this year or next in the draft.
Yeah
but you are judging AJ’s performance like he is an established PG in the league for 4 years. This was for all purposes his rookie year, he got little playing time last year. I think laying the blame on him for a game 2 loss is a little harsh.
I do not think he has reached his potential, nor do I think DC has reached his potential, and see AJ’s future as a good backup. What he lacks in size, he makes up for in breaking down defenses and streaky shooting. I think his overall game will come to him (and DC for this matter) as the game starts to slow down. I think he has tools and potential, now the question is, will the hard work and experience make him a better player.
His streaky shooting was too many times a bad thing
We remember some huge shots he hit against the Bulls, and forget the 12 point (or whatever) swing that happened immediately after he came into the game for DC after the ankle injury. I think he’s a 2nd rounder, nothing more. Meanwhile I don’t trust Lance to ever get his head on straight.
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I don't wanna nitpick
but 12 point swings happened in every game, that’s not on AJ. I hear you with the streaky part though, that’s the rub with those guys. JR Smith and Crawford will be no different if we pick one of them up in the offseason.
I would agree with the FAULK, spend the money elsewhere, I’m excited to see growth in both DC and AJ.
Lance has a lot to prove before any of us believe in him.
I gotta agree with Jantz on this one. You are being WAY too harsh on AJ. One game does not define a player, and that game certainly shouldn’t define our view of AJ. He was a second year player this year coming off of a knee injury with very little playing time during his first year. He’s not perfect, and he’s never going start in the NBA, but he will be a perfectly serviceable back up. I expect him to work hard this summer and be better next year than he was this year. That is good enough for me at the back up PG spot while we have better places to spend our money. At the absolute least, he deserves another year to show us what he can do.
I'm not using just one game
And there’s not a statistical argument for A.J.
Of the players in the regular rotation, he had the second-lowest PER (10.7, just 1/10th of a point above Brandon Rush).
Of all the players on our team, he had the 3rd lowest true shooting % (only Stephenson and Ford were lower)
Had the 2nd lowest win score on the team to Stephenson, despite having the 5th highest usage rate on the team (higher than Darren Collison and Paul George!). Also had the 4th lowest alternate win score on the team, beating out only guys who were not part of the regular rotation (Solo. Jones, James Posey, Ford and Stephenson).
The argument that he received significantly less playing time this year is faulty too. He saw a more consistent role in the rotation under Vogel, but played in 6 more games and averaged just 24 seconds a game less in 2009-10. His stat line took a noticeable dive in several key areas:
2009-10: 7.3 ppg, 1.9 apg, 1.1 TO pg, 1.6 rpg, 41.1 FG%, 34.5 3PT%, 80.0 FT%
2010-11: 6.5 ppg, 2.1 apg, 1.1 TOpg, 1.4 rpg, 35.6 FG%, 27.5 3PT%, 66.7 FT%
He has had ample opportunity to prove that he is a viable backup PG. He is not.
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Well then lets just be thankful you aren't in charge of player development
I am by no means an AJ apologist, but for you to make the recommendation that he is not a viable back-up PG based on a combined 1 year of experience seems a little short-sighted.
Again, is he the long-term answer at the back-up PG position? Maybe not. Are there other areas that I believe need more improvement this offseason? Absolutely.
He's played plenty
106 regular season games is a fine sample size. There are plenty of other guys in the league who were well on their way to at least viable backup status at that point in their careers. It would be different if he had ever been good, for any combined stretch of games throughout his career, but he hasn’t. There’s literally no argument to be made that he will improve. He was a second round pick. He’s performing as a second round pick typically performs. I don’t understand where you get this expectation that he’s going to improve.
I honestly don’t have time to do a bunch of research to back this up, but so far throughout his career the best thing you can say about Price is that he’s basically been Jeff Teague only less efficient (similar stat line, fewer mpg) and, unlike Teague, he’s shown no improvement. They were picked like 30 picks apart from one another, so that’s a compliment, I guess. I mean, you could argue that at least we didn’t draft Jeff Teague.
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I still don't think adding another backup PG THIS SUMMER is a huge concern
With FA additions and the draft, I think we can expect at least .500 ball from this team without signing someone at PG. We can either open or shut the book on Lance Stephenson’s time as a Pacer and look to address the position if needed. Of the top of my head, Jordan Taylor, Kendall Marshall, Tu Holloway, Marquis Teague and Myck Kabongo could be available and all would be cheap upgrades over AJ IMO.
That option seems much more attractive than overpaying even a JJ Barea, and we could use his money elsewhere on the roster.
Luke
I disagree with your sentiment here. Yeah, when DC first went down AJ had a terrible stretch to end the half. His role was TOTALLY different with the first team, and he did not adjust quickly. But the second half was much better.. the Pacers almost won the freaking game IN Chicago…
Would've probably gone into the half WAY up and won by a lot
Had DC not injured himself on that idiot camera guy. Granted, we couldn’t forsee that. But with a decent backup PG with starting experience (who wouldn’t dribble it off his foot or hand it to his defender on his first two plays in the game) we at least could’ve maintained the momentum going into halftime.
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Personally, if we're going after a 1, in whatever scenario
be it FA or trade, it’s not for a backup to replace AJ, it’s for an actual starter. I should preface by saying I absolutely am NOT down on DC, don’t want him off the team, any of that. I just don’t think he’s good enough w/o ample, ample improvement. Some of it’s correctable, a good portion’s not. I think he has below average to poor floor vision, he misses open cutters on the opposite side of the floor too often. He’s just a flatout bad defender, I don’t see how anyone can deny it. It’s not his fault the new breed of PG is 6’3/200+, but they are.
I don’t fault him for “looking for his shot too often,” I just don’t think there’s enough crisp movement and consistent weaponry around him to make him being a “floor general” viable. The kid can get to the rack and has shown flashes of finishing despite his size. If there’s a knock on Coach Frank I think it’s that he was too prone to let the guys “just play ball,” which I can understand given the situation he was presented with. With a full summer and training camp it could be drastically different.
People like to look at DC’s #s when Paul went down his rookie year, which were admittedly great. Except for, y’now the W/L column. The kid’s got aspects where he excels, great in the 2 man PnR game especially with a pick and pop 4 but I just cannot overlook his defensive shortcomings. He’ll never get bigger, he’ll never be able to sidestep an (insert tier 1 PG here) drive and body him off, he just doesn’t have a chance. That liability is why I just don’t think he’s good enough. Not holding us back, just not good enough.
KEEP COACH FRANK
I would agree with you.
Thug Life. It's a Pacers thing, you wouldn't get it.
by infinityzero.systemerror on May 4, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
nothing you said is false
I would like to give him one more year though with the same coach all year before I right him off as a “very good back up” instead of a starter.
Point guards tend to develop a little slow and having so many coaches can’t help that. But their isn’t a single thing you said that isn’t true.
That's exactly what I've been saying
DC is a great competitor and brings a lot of positives to the table, but to suggest the Pacers need a #1 WING player is unfounded because that role could come from a #1 PG option. Who that would be? No clue. But I would argue DCs ceiling is much lower than Paul George’s in terms of developing into an all-star, go to guy. Pacers need a player that can create his own shot… and I would like to see that come from the PG spot considering the potential of a Granger/George tandem.
N.O.
he’s not a point guard and doesn’t create. If we wanted one of the G.S guards, I’d want Curry and he’s apparently just as available for a price.
Either one...
Whatever. I like DC, but I think either one of these guys is in another league in terms of PLAYMAKING… which is what the Pacers need. Say what you want about Monta. The dude fills the hoop, and he averaged more assists this year than DC from the SHOOTING guard position.
basic stats lie
GS’s pace has to be factored in. Ellis had an ast% of 23.4 to DC’s 28.9. ast% is the amount of FGs that were made while said player was on the floor that he assisted on.
KEEP COACH FRANK
Interesting stat
But doesn’t that suggest Monta is even more impressive, in a sense? He is still getting more assists but with less passing opportunity.. ? Maybe? hehehe
Stats be damned, Monta Ellis is a much better player than DC. End of story, to me anyway.
Course he is, no one would say he isn't
Just ain’t no PG. I used to not be a fan of him at all, not in a “I want him on my team” sense anyway. He grew a ton as a player last year though, efficiency way up, team play way up. Still doesn’t guard and still a classic 0 guard, but he’s growing on me. Still think take him and put him in say, hell just our offense which is still above average in pace, there’s a HUGE production decrease and he’d have no idea what to do.
KEEP COACH FRANK
Why so many comments?
Has everybody lost hope in DC and AJ already? I’m the biggest critic of DC, but don’t you give him at least another year minimum? AJ too… he played with more confidence and aggression than anybody on the team. He gets at least another year too. They both have solid tangibles and intangibles, and they are cheap cheap cheap.
Plus, don’t you guys have at least an inkling that they’ll turn out to be really good?? I do.
I have no problem with DC as a starter
Well, no real problem. So far so good, I guess. And I made it clear that these are all backup options.
I do, however, have a problem with Price. He is effing clownshoes (NSFW).
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Would you agree that the Pacers need a shot creator?
I’m sure you do.. so why couldn’t that come from the point guard position? DC hasn’t separated as untouchable in my mind. And I happen to think Paul George and Danny Granger are a great combination at the 2 and 3…
But if we can get an upgrade at point if its available, why not? There seem to be a lot more good point guards potentially available than wing players.
I disagree with that last part
But I agree with everything else. There is a pretty shallow PG class this year, for STARTING PGs. But there are tons of viable backups. I think we can address the wing-scorer need, the defensive/rebounding big need AND spend on a cheap backup who won’t dribble off his foot or wind the shot clock down only to take, and brick, a contested 30 footer.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
absolutely, but the pg position should be fine
I digress for a moment… IMHO Hibbert and George are the only untouchables… maybe Psycho too. Granger… for at least half of next season (until somebody else shows consistent production).
Considering the Pacers haven’t had a good point guard since Mark Jackson days…. We should be thrilled with DC and AJ. While they both can be absolutely infuriating, they are both clearly very capable. I really like both of their tempos, and they each only need to make a couple adjustments to give the Pacers the advantage overall at the position (both rotations):
DC – cut down on turnovers and learn how to shoot a layup!
AJ – stop shooting so much and trust his teammates.
Back to your point… they both have shown they can create their own shot. DC seems very capable (especially later in season, despite not knowing how to shoot a friggin layup). AJ, while shooting poorly, has shown the ability to make buckets all over the court. With some discipline, I think he’ll be fine.
Maybe what I’m asking is a tall order. I can see it going either way, but this is more point guard potential than the Pacers have had in a long long time. Hard to deny that!! (Travis Best, Jamaal Tinsley, Jarret Jack, Anthony Johnson, TJ Ford, Sarunas…. the list goes on and on and on….)
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