Pacers Learning Hard Lessons By Playing Hard
by Tom Lewis on Apr 22, 2011 2:00 PM EDT
in Indiana Pacers News
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A sense of rage ran through my body at one point in the first half last night.
Tyler Hansbrough had just forced a jump ball on a flying Derrick Rose. Hansbrough tapped the tip to Danny Granger who turned and hit a streaking Paul George in stride for a slam dunk. The play completed an 8-0 run, put the Pacers up 38-33 and generated more noise than the Fieldhouse has heard in several years.
After weathering a slow start the Pacers were now bringing the fight to the Bulls. Aggressive on defense, assertive on offense (did you see the scoop layup by Josh McRoberts?) for the third game in a row the Pacers were playing their guts out in a high-level playoff game. I mean, executing plays off a jump ball tap? The Pacers were on fire.
So why the rage?
For some reason at that point, it hit me that this Pacers' team is not the same team we saw in the regular season and suddenly I was pissed that I had to sit through some many horrific outings from this crew all season. Seriously, all of that wasted time and problems that led to Jim O'Brien's firing was not only painful to watch but I wonder how much of an impact it is having on this series.
If the current playing rotation had played together more this season and played at this level of intensity, they would've been in many more tight games like this and felt more comfortable late in games. They would have far more failures and successes under their belt, key experience that would now benefit the Pacers at crunch time. Instead, they look like they're going through it for the first time and that inexperience is showing up as they try to figure it out.
The Bulls know what works when they need a bucket with the game on the line. The Pacers are still learning what works unfortunately by figuring what doesn't.
So now what?
Frank Vogel was as down after this game as I've seen him since he took over as coach. An 0-3 deficit will do that to a guy, no matter how positive an outlook he brings to the gym. Tomorrow will be the time to pump things up. At this point, the Pacers have to look at it as one more game to give it everything they have.
If they survive, then they can worry about game 5, but they have come too far in this short playoff series and have worked too hard to go in the tank in the final 48 minutes of the season. There is no basketball tomorrow if they lose, so continue showing the guts and fearless attitude for one more game.
Derrick Rose had a great comment when asked about the double-teams and different defensive looks the Pacers threw at him. He had a tough night and had to deal with Paul George and Dahntay Jones pressuring him all game. He simply said, "They're making me better."
Well, Rose and the Bulls are making the Pacers better, as well. If the worst-case scenario plays out, and the Pacers drop Game 4, it is still an opportunity for everyone in blue and gold to get better. Learn, develop, grow under the glaring lights of the NBA playoffs stage. None of those players should fail to recognize the situation or take the opportunity for granted. If you want to get back next year, the process starts now. A home win, pushing the series back to Chicago would relieve a bit of the frustration and add another 48 minutes of work to the season.
And yet another chance to get better.
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Game 4 will be a war.
The Pacers will come out swinging, expecting anything less by this point would be very stupid for the Bulls. Your backs are against the wall now and I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see your team win Saturday. These Pacers have proven themselves to be very dangerous.
"Fast Don't Lie"
by Sandberg's evil twin on Apr 22, 2011 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
i know where you're coming from
I’ve loved our play in these playoff games, but the one regular season game I actually went to, Indy at Minnesota, was the worst basketball I’ve probably ever seen a professional team play. extremely frustrating.
exactly what I'm talking about
that was definitely a top 5 stink-bomb game. Problem it’s possible to put together a top 5.
The problem with some teams with losing records
Is that they get so used to losing,they forget how to win.The Pacers have been playing with energy and confidence,giving a 100 percent effort in these playoffs.They believe in themselves and their teammates,and very easily could be up 3 games to none.Going into next season I believe this will be a different team.A team that knows how to win.
by gut19 on Apr 22, 2011 3:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Winning
Last night’s game hurt. Heck, this whole series has hurt. But, as many have stated, there are still plenty of reasons to be optimistic. We can be optimistic about the future, and I think we can even be optimistic about the remaining games in the series. If Indy can pull out a win tomorrow, then they go back to Chicago where they’ve shown twice already they’re capable of making it a nail-biting occasion for everyone who calls the United Center home. Time to take the “one game at a time” approach and see what happens. There’s a 99.9% chance this thing is over, but they’ve got at least one more game to keep improving, and keep showing their mettle.
I was also disgusted by some of the Pacer regular-season games this year.
But this team is incredibly young and inexperienced. Those awful regular
season games may have been as necessary a part of the growth process
as these playoff games have been. In Kevin Durant’s second year in the
league (Westbrook’s rookie year), the Thunder won 27 games.
I’m not comparing the two teams. I’m just saying a lot of lessons have to be
learned the hard way; sometimes the process can’t be rushed.
Why isn't Granger getting to the line?
Granger is averaging 1/3 the FTAs he did in the regular season. Considering how Rose is killing us at the line, wouldn’t that itself be a reminder that scorers drive more during the playoffs? As if Granger or Vogel should need a reminder. I don’t get it.
Has Granger even driven to the basket once in this series?
I mean, he’s a good player, but he mostly just shoots jump shots. It’s almost like people think that if the opposing team goes to the line, their team deserves to go as well. It doesn’t work that way. Rose is earning those free throws by constantly attacking the basket.
The Playoffs: That magical time of year when I become a fan of every team that Lebron James isn't playing for.
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 23, 2011 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Granger isn't Rose
He honestly can’t just run past Deng in the halfcourt.
And yes he has attacked the basket in transition, but he usually just gets a lay up.
by SpaceCowboy1984 on Apr 23, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Please don't take offense to this, i'm asking because you know the Pacers much better than we do
Is your team full of thugs? With all the hard fouls, and with Foster not being suspended for Game 4 despite the league giving him 2 flagrants for elbowing our players in their faces, myself and some of the Chicago radio guys are a tad worried.
Could you guys see Foster or any of your guys intentionally trying to injure Rose and/or Deng for the rest of the playoffs if it looks like the Bulls are going to win game for? As sort of a “goodbye, and screw off” revenge type thing on the part of the Pacers?
Again, not trying to offend, but I don’t know the Pacers well and you guys do. If this was Boston, i’d almost want to sit Rose for game 4 to avoid KG’s elbows. Is Foster that bad?
Ben Wallace signing + pissing off BG7 + pretending to trade for Kobe and getting everybody butthurt = 1.7% chance at the #1 pick...which somehow turned into Derrick Rose joining the Chicago Bulls. Garpaxdorf for executive of the year!
NOTE: If you see a post by Scala-three-ne, it's me. I cant log onto that account on a comp (says password is wrong) and it wont let me log on with this account on my phone. Anybody know how to fix this?
by sloantojordantorose on Apr 22, 2011 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
*game four
Ben Wallace signing + pissing off BG7 + pretending to trade for Kobe and getting everybody butthurt = 1.7% chance at the #1 pick...which somehow turned into Derrick Rose joining the Chicago Bulls. Garpaxdorf for executive of the year!
NOTE: If you see a post by Scala-three-ne, it's me. I cant log onto that account on a comp (says password is wrong) and it wont let me log on with this account on my phone. Anybody know how to fix this?
by sloantojordantorose on Apr 22, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
....
Your right… You know nothing of the team or our players. They will not intentionally injure your players, just like Boozer didn’t intentionally injure Hans. They Will play tough and make your guys regret driving into the lane. However, we have no intention of letting this series end in game 4 or game 5 or game 6. Plus, if you sit Rose you will lose.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Apr 22, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, i'd never ACTUALLY want them sitting Rose
like i said, i just know very little of the Pacers. I have legaue pass, but i still was only able to catch a few of their games this year. so i just didnt know if Foster was one of those “thug” players ala KG, or if the two plays in game 3 were an isolated incident in a high-emotion close playoff game. cant blame me for wondering lol with chicago sports radio saying that larry bird supposedly wanted a “bounty on Rose’s head” or some shit (although i didnt believe that, they started saying things like your bigs are all pissed off and might want a “finishing blow” should the Bulls be about to sweep).
Also, if you’re thinkng of the play I am (elbow to the chin while going for the rebound?) it was actually Kurt Thomas that hit Hansbrough, not Boozer. And off topic, but i’m not sure I get the Hansbrough hate that every other Bulls fan has. I’m assuming it stems from Game 1, and I do agree there’s nothing more annoying than having a guy beat you via the jumpshot, but I think its more annoying because you feel like your defense should be able to handle that.
anyway, i’m rambling now. thanks for answering. again, no disrespect to the Pacers, i literally had no idea if Foster had a reputation like James Posey/Kevin Garnett/Dennis Rodman.
Ben Wallace signing + pissing off BG7 + pretending to trade for Kobe and getting everybody butthurt = 1.7% chance at the #1 pick...which somehow turned into Derrick Rose joining the Chicago Bulls. Garpaxdorf for executive of the year!
NOTE: If you see a post by Scala-three-ne, it's me. I cant log onto that account on a comp (says password is wrong) and it wont let me log on with this account on my phone. Anybody know how to fix this?
by sloantojordantorose on Apr 22, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It was Kurt Thomas that knocked Tyler nearly unconscious, but it has been Boozer that has thrown about 10 intentional elbows to Hansbrough’s head in this series. Jeff Foster’s fouls were at least plays made on the ball. Hard fouls, yes. Contact to the head not intentional, but unfortunate. Flagrant? Maybe. But if you’re going to retroactively assess flagrant fouls to those, you have to go back to all the Boozer elbows thrown at Tyler Hansbrough’s head and make those flagrants. But the league won’t do that, because they know that if they called them all flagrants, he’d have enough flagrant points built up to be suspended for game 5.
Neither of Jeff Fosters elbows were "Plays on the ball"
They were both intentional malicious hits.
Are you blind, stupid or both?
And KT barely grazed Hans zygomatic bone, and nowhere near where he was clutching his head. Hans hit a teammates knee falling down.
I agree about boozer a bit though. He’s been playing stupid and using his elbows. Like the foul on Hansbrough when Korver hit that 3 at the end of game 3.
MN: 13
Hate to break it to ya.
But Hans didn’t hit Dunleavy’s knee, it was the elbow from KT that put Tyler down. Further evidenced by the fact he was grabbing at the side of his head that got hit by the elbow while walking away. I don’t think it was intentional just feel that we should have the record straight.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Apr 23, 2011 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions
No way, that elbow barely grazed him and was not enough to warrant such a reaction
I’m sticking by what actually happened.
MN: 13
Have you seen the bruise on Tyler's ear and the side of his head.
If that would have happened to Rose the Pacers play would have been kicked out of the game. So I don’t know if you are blind or just being ignorant but it was not a slight graze. But I guess that’s how Bull fans see when the Pacer players are fouled that there was nothing to it.
I don’t take offense. A little shocked, perhaps, because the Pacers have spent the last four years or so trying she dthe “thug” label that killed attendance in Indianapolis.
The simple answer is: no. The Pacers play hard and physical, but they’d never go so far as intentionally hurt another player. Basketball is a physcial game, and when Frank Vogel took over he articulated a new philosophy which said, in essence, we’re going to make teams pay for driving the lane.
Rose loves to the drive the lane and Pacers get physcial with him. It’s that simple. I imagine alot of the “shock and worry” in Chicago comes from the fact that you’ve not gotten the easy blowout and sweep series you imagined. Instead, you’re facing a tough and determined group of young guys who are a few ball bounces away from being up 3-0.
And, to be fair, we’re very frustrated in Indianapolis about how it seems all the calls ALWAYS go Rose’s way. It’s the superstar treatment in the worst way.
that kind of calms my nerves. chicago radio had me thinking Foster was garnet-esque
anyway, i dont know if we’re worried about not blowing you guys out in itself, i think that most of the worry is from people who fear we are last year’s Cavs. the Bulls were the 8 seed and we played the Cavs the same way you’re playing us. I dont think it’s comparable, i feel like Boozer/Noah/Deng/our bench is vastly stronger than Williams/Shaq/Jamison/their bench. Like you guys saw in Game 3, Boozer and Rose were pretty awful but other guys stepped up for us. That just didnt happen in Cleveland last year.
As far as the superstar calls, it’s funny. We know he’s getting those calls now, for the most part, but believe it or not, everybody was furstrated with how Rose was reffed until after the all-star break this year when he started getting that kind of call (about when the MVP talk started). Believe it or not, for whatever reason, Rose until about then NEVER got calls. You guys have seen how much he attacks the basket. That’s nothing new, but until recently he was only attempting 6 foul shots a game. Then it randomly jumped to 17 a game out of nowhere. There was literally 0 transition.
Ben Wallace signing + pissing off BG7 + pretending to trade for Kobe and getting everybody butthurt = 1.7% chance at the #1 pick...which somehow turned into Derrick Rose joining the Chicago Bulls. Garpaxdorf for executive of the year!
NOTE: If you see a post by Scala-three-ne, it's me. I cant log onto that account on a comp (says password is wrong) and it wont let me log on with this account on my phone. Anybody know how to fix this?
by sloantojordantorose on Apr 22, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there is alot of worry that you’re not blowing us out. Going into the playoffs, everyone scoffed at the Pacers and assumed an easy Chicago sweep in 4. Then all of a sudden, this gritty young team is throwing punch and punch and going round for round with the number one seed and coming close to beating them every time. The Bulls have never led by more than seven points in the entire series.
And to be fair, the sudden jump in calls does not mitigate the fact that they exist. It’s one of, if not the, major problem with the NBA. Alot of those new foul shots he gets to take he probably really shouldn’t but because he’s the likely MVP he gets the call anyway. It’s infuriating.
You think this guy knows Foster personally?
Or can speak to the intentions of all the players?
Go by what you see yourself in the game. That is alot more informative than some random Pacer fan on the interwebs.
MN: 13
out of curiosity (again, not real informed on the Pacers)
how are you guys at attracting free agents/stars? LeBron may have shat on every city in pro sports with cold weather and/or girls who dont use bikini tops as shirts on a daily basis, but if Bird could convince him to come, it seems Howard would be the perfect star to lead the Pacers. Seems you guys have enough young bigs that Orlando might be interested if it looks like they have to trade him or lose him for nothing. I see Howard-Hansbrough-Granger-three point shooting sf-Collison as a group that would be right there with the Bulls and heats (i know, no s, it’s a bulls thing lol) for the next decade.
Ben Wallace signing + pissing off BG7 + pretending to trade for Kobe and getting everybody butthurt = 1.7% chance at the #1 pick...which somehow turned into Derrick Rose joining the Chicago Bulls. Garpaxdorf for executive of the year!
NOTE: If you see a post by Scala-three-ne, it's me. I cant log onto that account on a comp (says password is wrong) and it wont let me log on with this account on my phone. Anybody know how to fix this?
by sloantojordantorose on Apr 23, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
While possible, I think it’s unlikely. It’d certainly be nice, but the whole LeBron debacle exposed a major probelm with the NBA. The superstar players decide they’re going to join up on a specific team to run for a championship. I don’t think Indiana has anyone who can convince someone else that joining the team is worthwhile.
That being said, the gritty performance the young guys have put on may convince someone that they’re the missing piece to get the Pacers to the championship.
And PLEASE
Rose is not getting enough calls if anything the way he is being hit.
MN: 13
Pure comedy
A guy with referencing Jerry Sloan in his user name asking about Jeff Foster being a thug. Sloan would be embarrassed for you for asking such a soft question.
Lol
Jeff Foster a thug ? hhahahahahah. Just look up his technical fouls and flagrant fouls . The guys a tough grind it out player . Go back to the Pistons or even the old Jordan bulls and see that what the pacers are doing is nothing new . Look at all the championship teams . They all had to be tough to win . ? Would have to say their is not one thug on this pacer team . Ya sit the whole bulls team out if their afraid to grind out another game . Hope they Fear the pacers . We will come at them with more hart than any other team in the NBA . The Bulls Will not Forget The INDIANA PACERS !
I dont know if Jeff Foster is a thug
But he’s playing like one. I don’t blame the players. It starts with the coach. The players are simply doing what the coach is asking them. Unfortunately, Vogel is making up for his lack of talent in coaching as well as lack of player talent by using thug tactics. Unfortunately for Vogel, even that’s not working. For the sake of Pacer fans, I hope Bird is able to find a good coach for next year. As for Bulls not forgetting the Ps; after completing the sweep today, the Ps will become irrelevant as usual.
by Bullforlife on Apr 23, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi Pot, I’m Kettle. It’s cool we’re both black.
The Pacers are playing hard in the lane, just like your Bulls. If you blame Vogel for our hard hits, then I blame Thib for yours. Basketball is a physical game. Period. You drive the lane, you’re going to get hit. Everyone knows this, from the earliest levels up. You suck it up and keep playing.
I think you’ll come to regret your words about the Pacers becoming irrevelant. The Hawks and your Bulls were 8 seeds who played a 1 seed hard and are now fixtures in the Eastern Conference. This play is not an aberattion but a harbinger of things to come. Expect alot of hard fought battles between the Pacers and Bulls over the next decade or so, just like in the Jordan and Miller years.
If what you are saying is true
How come there are no flagrant fouls on the Bulls after review? I agree with you that there are going to be hard hits in playoff games but not to the extent seen from the Ps in game 3. I mean, at least make it look like you are trying to make a play on the ball. Jeez.
I’m proud the Bulls are coached by Thibs and yes, they are a product of Thibs teaching. Everyone in Chicago who is not a Bulls players would’ve retaliated in Game 3. But the Bulls didn’t and that’s because of Thibs. The Ps have a long way to go before they know how to be a classy organization like the Bulls. And dont even get me started on Miller.
You are keeping these games close because of your thug tactics and you can’t win because you don’t have a closer like Rose. And guess what, you will never get one because, sorry to say, its the Ps. And hence destined for irrelevancy. Sorry.
I'm happy that you hate the Pacers
think they are thugs, and continue to hate them. Have a nice day.
by SpaceCowboy1984 on Apr 23, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
As I said below, you are looking at Indiana and the Pacers through the haughty and arrogant interpretation of a Chicagoan, who cannot possibly concieve of anyone or anything in Indiana or Indianapolis outclassing or outstripping your frozen city.
The flagrant given after review to Foster was a bull call. Was it hard? Of course. Flagarant? No. Foster was given the flagrant because the NBA pamapers their superstars.
Your criticism is blind to the fact that Bulls are fouling the Pacers just as hard but are getting the calls to go their way because they are the favorites. The NBA has always coddled it’s favorites, which is why only 7 different teams have won an NBA championship in the last decade.
Oh, and Reggie Miller was one of the greatest to ever play the game. Period. You cannot deny that. No one can.
I laugh at the idea of anything in Chicago being classy
Exhibit A: Cubs fans.
Dallas Clark: Some tight ends catch. Some block. Clark just owns.
I'll tell ya what.
It was hard as hell to find a video of the Deng hit. WTF is with that? Rose was real easy, an official video even in HD. Real pretty I must say. Alright I watched both over and over and over and over and over and over and over… you get the idea. After all the watching I think a person’s opinions of the plays are a matter of perspective. I watched them and have no problem with the hits, but I like this style of play. It makes the games funner in my mind, a real throwback to some of the good ol’ days before the NBA got soft and star-struck.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Apr 23, 2011 4:53 AM EDT reply actions
Great article, Tom!
I’ll tell you something…the Pacers deserve to win this game today. I would not be surprised to see them win by double figures. Just a hunch, but Granger and company are going to take their frustrations out on the Bulls by shooting the lights out. A little more Dahntay Jones on Rose might do the trick on defense.
Talk about anger, I was really angry Boozer was not thrown out of the game for that elbow he launched at Tyler’s head. It’s like the Bulls want to injure him for life.
I hope you are right
Because the Ps have given nothing but misery to the fans in the last decade. The least they can do is give you a playoff win even if it means sidelining the opponent players for the rest of the playoffs. Classy.
by Bullforlife on Apr 23, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Quit your whining and just admit you didn’t expect to have to work this hard to win. The Bulls have never led by more than 7 points. Not exactly the easy blowout you expected.
Then again, I expect this attitude from an arrogant Chicagoan whose culture is built around denegrating Indianapolis and Indiana in general.
I don't get it.
You obviously don’t think much of the Pacers so why not do everyone a favor and stop writing your thoughts on this blog. Do you really think anyone is going to agree with you? I bet you were one of the bull fans throwing trash at the Pacer fans. Not that’s what I call classy behavior for an adult.
A few angry Bulls' fans around here lately
They also must be pretty soft if they think the PACERS are thugs. I never thought I’d hear/read that about this team again. I’d like to see how they react to the Celtics or Lakers or Nuggets or Grizzlies, you know, teams with more than two players with a rep of being physical/tough (I don’t count Posey since he isn’t playing).
Maybe we should unleash Posey, they haven’t even seen a borderline dirty play until they see him in the playoffs.
So much whining.
by SpaceCowboy1984 on Apr 23, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
Good point Tom - imagine what may just be around the corner...
I have also thought to myself…. if only this rotation had played together longer! I argue that this rotation over the course of a season (plus pre-season) is easily a 50-win squad. There are a ton of people who would disagree, but imagine a more cohesive unit that understands winning, with the likelihood of one or two players emerging into consistent contributors. Right now that second consistent contributor next to Granger does not exist! I think that’s amazing. I’m guessing all other playoff teams at least have 2, maybe 3 consistent contributors.
Heck, what if DC, Hibbert, George, and Hansbrough all emerged as consistent performers? This would probably be a 55- win team.
Unrealistic? Maybe, but pay attention to the games where most of those guys (not even all) have a solid game. I don’t have stats in front of me, but I would wager they are mostly wins.
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