Should we bring back Mike, McRoberts, and Foster for next year?
by latrell spreewel on Mar 31, 2011 12:09 PM EDT
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Printthe Indiana Pacers are at the junction of a crossroad. Though much has been made of the Pacers impending salary space by having Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, solomon jones and Tinsley's contracts come off the book. The Pacers are definitely missing pieces to their ultimate puzzle, whether those pieces will be filled by free agents or by trade, they will need to be addressed eventaully. But before we consider which free agents not currently on the team we should pursue, the Pacers do have to consider bringing back some of the free agents currently on the team. Most of us are sure that Solomon and TJ will be long gone, the dilema lies within Foster, Dunleavy and McRoberts. All of these players are good players that are very very good role players. through the peaks and valleys of the 2010-2011 season, all three have contributed their fair share to the Pacer's win coloumn. It will be hard to let all three of them walk away since they all contribute a very unique set of skills that are very very difficult to replace.
Lets begin with Dunleavy. Many Pacer fans on IC and myself included felt in the beginning of the season that Mike Dunleavy would be packing his bags along with TJ and Solo, but after seeing how the Pacers' offense and general play became so completely inept during Dunleavy's thumb injury, we all begin to realize how valuable Mike is to the current team, albeit overpaid for his contribution. Dunleavy is without a doubt the best player on the court in terms of moving without the ball, complement that with his perimeter capabilities really space the floor for all of his team mates to either attack the rim or simply confuses the defense on the constant motion of moving parts. Paul George has hit the rookie wall since going into the starting lineup, he will improve next year, but he will still be very very green. Dunleavy can be a very good mentor for George. Much has been noted about Dunleavy's porous defense; much of it is accurate, as Mike does not have the lateral quickness to cover the elite shooting gaurds in the league. However, with that said, Mike is not as horrible as his reputation proceeds him, he is a mediocre man on man defender and an above average team defender, but everyone knows, Dunleavy's game will be evaluated by how well he's contributing to the offense side of the game. Looking through the list of free agent SGs available in the summer, Dunleavy's overall game and IQ will fit in better with the Pacers than most of those other free agents. I think 2 yrs with a team option for 4-5 mil each is a fair contract for Duns.
Josh McRoberts has overachieved all of our expectation since he arrived here 3 years ago as a complete project. Those days are long gone, Josh McRoberts has legitimate NBA talent. How many other 6'10 PF can lead a fast break or go coast to coast like Mcroberts? NOT very many. Josh does not put up the numbers that Hansbrough puts up largely because he does not look to shoot the ball. I think if Josh can put on some muscles over the summer and work on his midrange, he can be a scary player!!! He is also 2 years young than Hansbrough with athletic abilities that are very rare even in the NBA. 3 years 3-6 mil each.
Jeff Foster has been a soldier for the Pacers for a long, long time. Jeff has been there in times good and in times bad. Everyone loves Jeff for his hustle and his dirty work down in the post. The man is a rebounding machine even at the tender age of 33. I think he is per minute wise the best offensive rebounder since the time he came to the league. The decision with Jeff will come down to his age and the amount of money he's looking for. With Jeff, its all about being healthy. If it was up to me I bring him back for 2 more years on 3 mil a year.
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I like Dunleavy in a smaller role and much smaller salary, I don’t think that Rush or Jones are ready and/or capable of stepping up into his role and like you said the free agent SG market isn’t great. If Feisty One wants to return we have to sign him although I really don’t trust him to be our only backup center. Of the three I think McBob would be the odd man out. I really like him, but I can’t see going forward with him and Hansbrough as the two power forwards.
yes to jmac and fiesty if sensible contracts....
I dont wna get into a bid war with another team about? them, not worth it. NO to Dunleavy, one because he will get paid high by someone, Heat? OKC? someone will. Next, we have a ton of youth on the wings that needs to develop, we need to stick with a youth movement and as much as I like Mike, Its time to move on.
I've just check, Miami will be over the salary cap for the next three seasons at least
they can only offer the midlevel exception. Dunleavy does not fit OKC at all. I think the league already knows about his injury prone history, I don’t think he’s gonna be paid more than 7 mil per yr.
by latrell spreewel on Mar 31, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa...that's way too much.
If he goes somewhere else it will be for MLE (between 4.5 and 5.5mil). No team with cap space is likely to see him as a worthy addition at 7mil. Teams that want him will want him as a 6th or 7th man, maybe like a NYK (but they aren’t spending until 2012) or the Lakers maybe, or…Utah maybe? I don’t know. I just don’t see him getting more than MLE and if no one wants to give him that, I’d be happy to have him back in the $3-3.5mil. per range. If he gets more elsewhere, good for him.
peac.e
Yes to Jmac, if the price is right
I too am nervous with the aging foster as our back up center. Jmac is good, and if we can keep him at a reasonable price, him and Hans going forward would be a good PF combo…With Duns…I mean if he will take scraps lets keep him as he seems a good fit with our youth. But someone will overpay him (relative to what we want to) and I don’t think he will be back.
by PIERREismyHOMEBOY on Mar 31, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
I realy like Josh, he's one of my fav players on the team
the guy is also a very underated defender, passer and screen-setter. I completely forgot a recent article mentioning how the Pacer’s best and most efficient lineup had both Dunleavy and Mcroberts in them. I really want JMac back not only because of his abilities but also beacuse he always puts the Pacers on Sportcenter highlights.
by latrell spreewel on Mar 31, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The most efficient lineup thing is prolly right, but thats the thing...
that was this year and if thats what they wna run during the playoffs, more power to them. But for next year and down the line, with George, Hans and the rest of our young guys getting better that wont be the case. Though let me point out I would like to see Jmac back at reasonable price too. I love the Bash Brothers. Also, everyone seems to forget that Dunleavy’s getting old. George, Rush, Stephenson, draft picks are all just maturing and getting better. Not to mention D Jones has us on the hook for like 4 years or something crazy including his player option.
by Justin Arnold on Mar 31, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
those numbers were outdated
the site updated their info and that lineup was nowhere near the leaderboard
I don't know what to do. At all.
Absolutely sign all 3
Good arguments made so far in these comments. I agree we need a “big butt” backup center that is the future beyond Foster, but Foster will probably remain good for the next couple of years. He’s been fantastic this year. As far as Dunleavy and McBob go, I agree with the post. They both can be had for cheap, Dunleavy is a rock on offense, fundamentals, and leadership. The team needs these things more than anything, and he has all of it. McBob has crazy upside, and he’s shown a ton of improvement and leadership. With the free-agent market looking really light, it seems a no-brainer to tie these guys up. If it doesn’t work out, trade them! Dunleavy and Foster would probably be shorter length contracts. I could see them tieing McBob up longer. Of course, all the randomness surrounding mgmt, who knows what might happen.
by Funkerdown on Mar 31, 2011 1:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I voted 2 of 3
But I wouldn’t care if we got rid of all, or kept all, depending on the free agency situation. It’s very hard right now, not knowing market values and CBA rules, what to expect, and what to consider good values.
In my opinion at backup wing:
Afflalo (at $6-7 mil a year)>Thornton ($5-6 mil)>Dunleavy (at less than $4 mil a year)>than someone like Jamal Crawford ($8 or $9 mil).
Backup PF:
Kris Humphries ($4-5 mil)>(or equal to)McBobs (same cost)>Overpaying Z-Bo, Landry or West>doing nothing>overpaying someone who’s not even good
Backup C:
Sam Dalembert ($5-6 mil)>Overpaying Tyson Chandler>Foster for one year ($3-4 mil)>Making any attempt at Greg Oden
My suspicion is that, given his recent play, the Pacers will try to lock up McBobs to a fair deal long-term. Hopefully they won’t get outbid by someone else, or won’t overpay him (he is what he is…a backup PF only). Remember, we won’t have the right to match anyone’s offer b/c he’s a UFA (second round pick). If they have to part ways with him, I’d like to at least get back a trade exception. Then Dunleavy and/or Foster will only be pursued if they can’t find better options on the open market.
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Arron Afflalo is a very good idea
if we can snatch him away for 5-7mil, I let Dunleavy walk.
PF: Kris Humphries? NO, We already have Hansbrough, plus Mcroberts has a much higher up side than him. I dont trust Zbo’s conditioning and overall health to give him a big contract. West just messed up his knee. Carl Landry, eh, rather have Jsoh.
I think Josh has starter potential, he just needs to bulk up and toughen up, that will take his game to a new level.
by latrell spreewel on Mar 31, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Notice I ranked Humprhies and Josh as equals and indicated I'd rather have either of them at the right price than Z-Bo, West or Landry
The reason I even mentioned Humphries is because he’s a monster rebounder and Josh is not, at least not consistently. I think there’s something to be said for Josh’s potential. Humphries HAS to have reached his ceiling now. He’s definitely a late bloomer and I don’t see any situation where he gets better than averaging a double-double in 25-30 mpg. I just like the idea of having a rebounding specialist on our team, considering we don’t really have one at the moment. Drafting Kenneth Faried could solve this problem if he can get away with all of his grab maneuvers at the next level and his size doesn’t hinder him too much.
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rethinking about your ideas, and you've changed my mind
I would definitely put Marcus Thronton and Afflalo ahead of Dunleavy base on sheer youth and athleticism. Marcus Thornton has been an absolute monster since the trade went down and he is really young, he will definitely take George’s minutes if we get him. Afflalo is a more complete player but is not as explosive of a scorer as Thornton.
I get your idea on Humphries but I still put Josh ahead of him as of now. But I definitely change my mind on Dunleavy.
by latrell spreewel on Mar 31, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was obvous
That Dunleavy was a last resort/cheap alternative type. Making re-signing Dunleavy an off-season priority seems ludicrous to me, especially when there are so many viable, and as you said, young wings out there. I don’t have a single problem with Dunleavy at the right price, but if we’re relying on him for meaningful minutes every night, no one should be surprised if we’re no better next year than we are this year.
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definitely shop around, but who will be available?
No doubt the Pacers should shop around, but who realistically will be available? I doubt the organization wants to get in a position where they spend big for marginal talent. Been down that road, and what I see in free agency… marginal talent at best.
Affalo and Thornton… while good… aren’t exactly stars, and those teams will surely look to lock them up. Then again, we don’t want to spend big money on the three guys in question in this post. Maybe McBob gets a healthy contract, but the other two?
It’s probably a fun game to figure this out… for smarter people than myself. Who is worth making a run at? Who can we realistically “win” from another team? Who do we have that we’re confident will blossom? Paul George? Do we focus on a defensive player or an offensive player?
Like I’ve said, I would work hard at signing these guys to organization-friendly contracts, demonstrate confidence and loyalty, and if it doesn’t work out, or something great turns up….. make a trade. A quality, inexpensive team has been built, and other teams will need players/cap space. Roll the dice the conservative route!
- Keepin my day job.
I just can't see us resigning McRoberts as a good idea
We have Hibbert, Hansbrough already and if we add McRoberts, that’s three below-average rebounders/ not great low post defenders. I love J-Mac, but I’d rather have Reggie Evans, Chuck Hayes or Humphries unless they cost way more.
Humphries maybe...
…but seriously? Hayes or Evans. McBob is at least that good now and still has WAAAAAAYYYYY more upside than them. We don’t have guys that put up huge numbers on the glass, but we are a decent rebounding team. I didn’t feel like looking for actual pace adjusted stats, but we are 5th in the league in rebounding. We are also 10th in FGA and 6th in FGA allowed, so there’s reason to believe that 5th in rebounding really equates to average rebounding…but seriously. Josh has upside and already does alot of good things. He’s not great at anything, but I just don’t see many better options (including those you named) that would preclude us from signing McBob. I don’t mind us stocking up on talent and having solid role players as well though.
peac.e
Don't discount Hayes
He causes matchup problems for other bigs because of his quick hands, blockout abilities and court vision. I’d be great with adding him because he could, unlike Josh, backup both 4 and 5 spots.
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I agree 100% on backup C if we could get Sam for that price...
PF: Im def. of the keep Jmac variety especially if Humphries is that price because I am sure we can get Jmac for less and we don’t have the Kardashian distraction. (Though I like Big Butts and I cannot lie)
SF: Personally and from many others comments maybe I am in the minority, but I think George has more potential than any of those guys and I don’t want anyone coming in and disrupting his progression. I think George is only 19 or 20 and if you look at Kobe at that age he wasnt puttin up phenomenal numbers either. Also, George’s D is very good. In the minority again I feel good about Rush, Jones, Stephenson, Posey, and potentially a draft pick filling the wings.
sidenote:Is Afflalo injured or something? I wanted to check on him the other day because of everyones interest in him and he was inactive.
by Justin Arnold on Mar 31, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Yahoo!
Arron Afflalo missed his fourth straight game Wednesday against Sacramento with a strained left hamstring. But Nuggets coach George Karl expects him to return Friday at Sacramento. Afflalo missed three games in early March with a hamstring problem before returning to come back too soon and aggravating the injury. With that in mind, the Nuggets are being more cautious this time. “Arron doesn’t have to prove anything to us,” Karl said. “We just need him to get back to where he is healthy.” Still, the Nuggets don’t want to keep him out too long. “He has to play in some games,” Karl said. “I would not want him to play in a playoff game without having five or six games under his belt. I think we have plenty of time to get his rhythm back and his confidence in a good place (before the playoffs start for Denver on either April 16 or 17).” After he’s cleared, Afflalo is expected to return the starting lineup. Wilson Chandler started three of the four games Afflalo sat out, with Chandler missing one himself.
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This is pretty much my sentiment.
As much as I wanted us to trade down and draft Collison when we took him, I wouldn’t mind looking for a combo gaurd to push him at the point and at least be available to replace AJ if Lance isn’t ready as backup and maybe play some minutes at SG.
I am a big fan of throwing out a wide net of reasonable contracts to a lot of players as the market dictates and see what we end up with when the dust settles and the guys who didn’t get overpaid are out there. We just need to prioritize and move down the list like you’ve presented here.
I don’t think I’d offer Foster much more than league minimum unless some how we can’t retain Josh and all the other FA bigs get overpaid, then I might consider that $3-4mil. range for one more year…but, he’d have to wait around a while to get that offer and he might take another before we can move on it. I love him. He’s playing some of the best ball of his career this year in limited minutes, but he’s in his mid-30’s and has had all kinds of hip and back problems and those things tend to linger at this age.
A couple guys I’d have thrown in there somewhere would’ve been Wilson Chandler for about the same money as you suggested for Afflalo (probably won’t be enough to get either, but I’d make a play and stand pat w/ out over extending) and Rodney Stuckey for about the same money you suggested for Thorton (I think we’ll have a hard time getting either of them for that price also, but again, throw out a wide net).
I know you can’t just make a million offers to alot of these guys all at once since quite a few are on Qualifying offers and we’d have to wait up to a week to see if we get them, but smart moves can be made this summer and that may mean not making any…that might end up being the smartest move. Even if a CBA gets done and the rules don’t change much I don’t see this being a big spending spree summer around the league and I think there will be some solid value.
peac.e
Afflalo and Chandler
I’m not really interested in Chandler, but I tink you’re right; he’ll command more than 6-7. I don’t know about Afflalo. I think paying him like Trevor Ariza is pretty generous. But like you said, there’s really no way to tell right now.
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What do you not like about Chandler?
That dudes a nice player. Can play 3 and 4 if needed. Blocks shots, can shoot some. Solid rebounder. I’m not saying he fills any great need, but if we COULD get him for $6-7 mil. I’d like us to try.
Afflalo is shooting nearly 50% from the field and 42% from the line. He’s only scoring 12.6ppg, so I’m sure he’s only taking quality shots, but I could see him getting the same money as Chandler for sure.
peac.e
I feel like he was a product of D'Antoni's stat-inflating system
Stats are down in almost every significant category with the Nuggets. I know he’s been injured and has played fewer minutes, but in a traditional offense I just see him as slightly above average, and incapable of playing anything but SF.
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I agree for the most part about his stats.
But I like his ability to do alot of things slightly above average. If alot of GMs agree with your sentiment (especially Denver’s), I think I’d take him for $24-$26mil. for 4 years.
I know we’d start getting deeper in log jam mode, but it’s also my opinion that we should collect as much affordable talent as possible, let ‘em fight for minutes and constantly be looking for trades that get us more draft picks. I wouldn’t look to bring in Chandler if we brought back either Dunleavy (cause he’s a wing and I’d like Chandler getting 60-70% of his minutes there) and I wouldn’t sign Chandler if we were able to retain McBob either (cause McBob can be an uptempt Chandler and I’d like him to get the rest of his minutes in a small-ball quick paced line-up…essentially when Hibbert is resting).
But, alot of this just depends on which of these 50 or so free agents that are going to be out there gets signed when and what we do at center and GOD please don’t let us spend our whole wad on some 2nd tier player.
peac.e
Trade Exceptions
only apply to teams who are over the cap. So that option is out. The only compensation we could get for letting Josh go would be a future second-rounder, but for such a low-salaried player, teams are most likely just going to try to sign him outright.
Good point
Give me back any sort of draft pick then, if the CBA still makes it advantageous for us to sign him and trade him. Although, at his salary level, it will only make a difference on years (we can offer him one more). Anyone who wants to sign him for 6 years is kinda stupid to begin with.
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When you have a strong core like we do
You absolutely need to keep it together. I think we should bring everyone back! TJ Ford included.
With maturing, some luck and good health. We can probably get this group to 37 or 38 wins. Assuming the East stays as weak as it is now?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
What's with the cynicism?
Do you have any specific suggestions (other than abstract calls to “blow the team up” or “fire Bird”)?
by dustinpurvis on Mar 31, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I will answer for Aaron
“No. It’s already too late. You idiots have already been suckered into believing this sh!t-pile is salvageable.”
About right?
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This core as presently constructed is never better than a .500 proposition
Why keep ANYONE who is over 30 and just a bit part? I’d like to see us replace those guys with younger, higher upside prospects.
The problem as always isn’t the 8th,10th, and 13th guys on the roster that we always seem to go back and forth on. It’s that we don’t have legitimate #1 and #2/3 guys.
Add Zach Randolph and OJ Mayo this offseason and it looks like we really want to compete. McRoberts,Foster and Dunleavy can be replaced for minimal investments on the market.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
agreed mostly...
You still have to factor in our young guys getting better/becoming seasoned. I’d still try to resign mcbob, he’s young and could still be a poor man’s odom in a few seasons. i would let foster and duns go. they’ve contributed and helped our squad but we need to be committed to totally moving forward and they are definately not part of the plan. If we can’t get anyone i wouldn’t be opposed to bringing them back on minimum deals and having them play a limited role as third string/situational guys. idk about randolph, could go either way as far as risk goes but would be awesome if he played like he is now. I’d love to get mayo, he’s an athletic scorer who wants to play and would be a huge upgrade over what we have at the 2spot. his issues don’t seem that bad, most players in this league have issues we just don’t hear about it because we don’t follow every team. so over all, yeah, i’d agree with you.
At least two
I’d really like to bring Foster back on a one year deal, which would also free up cap space for next year (a much better free agent market), and I’d like to get McRoberts signed on a three year deal or so if we can. I really like the guy.
I just hope the Pacers are smart in free agency this year. I’d much rather not spend the money and carry cap space over to next season than spend it like Detroit did a couple years ago by overpaying very mediocre players.
Everyone wants this off-season to really improve the pacers, but I think just coming out of this off-season with a lot of cap room for next year, when a new CBA is in place and teams are scrabbling for cash, would be the biggest win of all. Looking through the list, there are about 20 free agents next year I would take over any this year (a lot are restricted, but if there is a hard cap in place, teams may not be able to match offers if they are close to the cap, while the Pacers could manage to be well under.)
Two out of Three ain't bad...
Bring back McBob! That is the main one of the 3. The energy he brings is invaluable when all things considered that in a pinch, he could play all 5 positions. Laugh all you want, but he did bring the ball up in the summer league quite a bit and did an admirable job. I will always be a Jeff Foster fan but would only bring him back if a better upgrade isn’t available at a reasonable price. McBob is much like a young Foster and I can see him being That valuable big man off the bench for years to come and not a bad spot starter. Dunleavy I would personally like to come back for what he can bring to the team. I won’t go into his accolades or shortcomings as they have been dissected on here way too many times.
we made a mistake last time with Foster
we gave him too much money and too many years. I wouldn’t be opposed to him returning but it would have to be CHEAP
I voted 2 of 3...
…only b/c I don’t think we’ll end up retaining them all, but I certainly would for the right price. Luke’s original response is very much in line with my thinking as you can see from my response.
Prioritywise with the 3 players mentioned in the original post, I’d put them in this order:
1. McRoberts. He’s young, versitile and still improving. I like him b/c he can do a ton of things in a variety of ways and doesn’t need a many minutes to have a positive impact. Plus, he should be FAIRLY affordable to re-sign at this point.
2. Dunleavy. I like him for alot of the same reasons as JMac. He’s versitile (though neither are good man-up defenders they at least contribute in a defensive set). Dunleavy would need to sign for well under half what he was making this year, but he’s not extremely old and aside from that major knee injury and some nagging dings here and there he’s not as fragile as it seems. I’m not going to say he’s NOT injury prone, but he’s no Jonathan Bender or Jamal Tinsley, that’s for sure.
3. Foster is playing quite well right now. But, we know what he does and I think he can be replaced with a younger safer option and it shouldn’t cost us a ton more. If not, and he signs somewhere else before we can retain him cheaply, there’s always bums like Solomon Jones out there on the market that can play a few minutes. It won’t be ideal and if we don’t bring Jeff back and can’t get an upgrade that’s going to put tons of presure on Roy and probably force JMac into some center duty, but I don’t want to give Foster like $12-15mil. for 3 or 4 years at his age, that’s for damn sure.
As with many others, I’ll be putting together a much more detailed off-season strategy Fanpost sometime shortly after the season. I’m hoping we’ll all read and reply to each others b/c I’m sure we will all have something to say.
peac.e
Maybe we should just collab on one huge fanpost
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I'd say so.
But, I think some guys will want to have the ability to draft their own large scale plans (maybe even edit them). And you’re thoughts sometimes get lost in the flow of responses. I think there will be a few regardless, we’ll just have to speak our minds on all of them.
peac.e
I love Foster
However, we can’t rely on the fact that he’ll be healthy. Which is why I would let him go and find someone younger, more reliable. I’d keep McBob and Dunleavy because I don’t believe in Tyler Hansbrough like others and Dunleavy is a solid wing to have on your team.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Apr 1, 2011 3:17 AM EDT reply actions
One thing to note.
There is a minimum team salary. It will probably be around $45 mil next year. So the idea of sitting on all our cap space until the next free agent class doesn’t really work. We will need to spend at least $10 million of it this summer by rule (unless the CBA changes this).
My two cents (similar to most here):
JMac. He can probably get 3 years at 5 mil somewhere. I’d rather have him for 5 years at 3 mil if we can. Perhaps we split the baby and give him 4 for 4. Fair enough.
Dunleavy. Only if the price is right. 3 mil per year is probably fair.
Foster. He’s earned the right to play for the Pacers for as long as he wants. I just hope he doesn’t want to play that much longer. It’s just about time to move to the front office. Maybe give him a one year contract with a one year player option at a little over the veteran min.
I think if we can we should resign all three for reasonable amounts. All three of these guys seem to contribute positively to team chemistry and that can’t be overlooked.
Also, the team needs some continuity for the fan base. The more the fans recognize and identify with the players, the more likely they are to watch or come to games and think “that’s my team.” Loosing Foster or JMac would be tough for the casual fan and we should be doing everything we can right now to keep those people interested.
well said, One of the Pacers priority as an organization is bringing back the fans
though I don’t know if its smart to bring all three back especially both Foster and Dunleavy as they are on the wrong side of 30. I think between Duns and Foster, I rather have Foster and sign a younger more athletic wing like LukeNukem sugguested. Aaron Afflalo has good size, good athleticism and good shooting percentages to be a starter while George learns on the fly. I think Afflalo can be had for somewhere between 5-8 mil per year for 3 years depending on the CBA. I like Duns overall contribution to the Pacers but there are also a lot of nights where he shoots us out of a game. Afflalo is also a better defender than Duns.
by latrell spreewel on Apr 1, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
$6-8mil. sounds more likely for Afflalo
But, it will certainly be for 4 years at least. No way he settles for a 3 year deal unless it’s closer to the $8mil. range and even then probably only if there’s a player option.
peac.e
8 mil is very very risky for a player who has really one good season under him
he is not a star player, anything more than 7 mil for Afflalo, i would back off
by latrell spreewel on Apr 1, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say I'd want us to pay that.
But, I think if he settles for $6.5-$7.5 his agent’s going to want at least 4 years with a player option in there. That way he’s got long term money with the option to cash in on improved play. His % is impresive, but he isn’t counted on that much, even now with Melo gone he’s not their top guy.
For the Pacers, I don’t think I’d offer more than $6mil./ 4 years.
Maybe he won’t get more than that anywhere else, but I think he’s a good enough player to warrant about that.
peac.e
$ sounds right to me.
I imagine there’s a chance we’d have to go slightly higher for McBobs and Foster…which I’d do. Dunleavy won’t get much more than that, and shouldn’t get any more than that from us…but I’d give him $3mil. after we’ve shopped some for an upgrade.
peac.e
Id only take Foster back at the minimum
He gets hurt too often and isn’t reliable. Love him when he’s playing though.
Dunleavy doesn’t need to come back, for any price. Always hurt. Plus… we have to pay Granger, Rush, Jones, George, and Stephenson next year… we don’t need to pay another wing no matter the cost. We have enough mediocre wings… too bad we gave Rush is extra year for no reason.
McBob… eh. If its cheap and short sure but we already have or “back up for the future” in Hans (even though I like McBob better)… we dont’ need 2 back ups on the team again.
I agree about the "backup of the future" comment
But in my opinion, the ideal situation has Hansbrough starting for the next year or two while we groom a PF with the potential to be a true NBA star. In the meantime, what we’re losing in talent between Hansbrough and West, Z-Bo or Landry will be more than made up for with how cheap he is as a mediocre NBA starter. If that’s the case, I’m fine with McBobs coming back as a backup PF, assuming the 3rd stringer has the potential to be an eventual stud, or we have a future plan for that position.
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if the third stringer has a potential to be a stud
then I want him playing back up minutes, not warming the bench
Maybe
Or maybe he’s like Perry Jones, who won’t be strong enough for significant minutes his first year. Or maybe he’s like Jan Vesley (sp?) who probably won’t even be playing in this country till 2013.
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Yikes. That seems like a tough plan to execute.
Jones and any Euros scare me. Luckily for my mental peace, I don’t think Jones or any worth while Euros will be there at 15.
peac.e
No, this goes back to the Granger trade bit
I’m just saying that whatever happens, whether it involves trading into the top 5 or not, is having Hansbrough as our starting PF for the next couple years such a bad thing? I want someone else, but I don’t really want to spend a bunch of money on someone. I’d much rather draft/trade for someone young and hope he develops. Also take a look at Vesely. He’s at least fun to watch. I don’t think he or Jones are really star material, but they both have potential. Might as well if we’re trading into the top 5 and can’t get Derrick Williams or Kyrie Irving, eh?
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IMO the ideal 3rd guy wouldnt have to be a future superstar.....
but at least a DD type player who can get minutes at both C and PF.
by Justin Arnold on Apr 1, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see the three of them back next season.
Dunleavy is a veteran that came back from a career ending injury and seems to have great value to the team thanks to his basketball IQ.
I love McRoberts intensity.
I think the Pacers need a guy like Josh to back up Tyler because the team doesn’t lose the power ofense and scrappy defense when Hansboro goes to the bench.
Foster is a long time idol.
He fight for every rebound like a pitbull.
He gets under the skin of any Center in the league (even robots like Duncan and Aldridge).
He’s still one of the best ofensive rebounders in the game.
I wouldn’t mind giving new (and moderate) contracts to those three.
I’m tired of Dahntay and Rush.
Dahntay tries to be the leader the Pacers seek…but he will never be that.
Rush is a scarry rollercoaster that put big numbers on the board in a small amount of games and make some childish plays in most of them.
Foster/McRoBerts/Dunleavy – IN
Dahntay/Solo/Rush/Ford – OUT
But that is jus my opinion.
Pacers Forever
Minnesota
Has three PFs that will be unrestricted FAs at the end of the 2112 season: Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, and Anthony Randolph. No way will they keep all those guys.
What do you think about the Pacers targeting Beasley in the offseason as a proactive move?
Wow. 2112?!?!? Now that's forward thinking.
Just Kidding. I would say perhaps. That guy looked like he’d be a Beast at K-State. I always chalked up his marginal defensive effort in college to his importance to the team and avoiding fouls. But, he’s been underwhelming as a pro. If we didn’t have to give up much for him I wouldn’t mind making a play, but I wouldn’t trade any of our current front 8 or 9 rotation guys or probably even our 1st round pick this year (I think the Morris twins could do almost what Beasley’s doing for about 1/4th the pirce).
peac.e
I love him as a starter if we have a legit defender like Chuck Hayes behind him
But with Tyler backing him up that’s a perpetual defensive liability on the floor at all times. As for your Morris twins comment…no. They will never casually put up 19/6 for a bad team like Beasley does. They are Darrel Arthur and his slightly worse twin brother…if he had one.
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Strange how we agree on so many things...
…and are SO far off on so many others. Chuck Hayes? As a brick wall second line of defense? What? He’s good at bodying up guys, especially given his size…though I hate saying a guys good…“given his size”. But, he’s not going to erase a bunch of mistakes. 0.7 bpg. I know blocks don’t equate directly to defense, but from the perspective you’re proposing as a weakside defender? Their pretty indicative of that skill. Foster doesn’t block alot of shots, but he’s a pretty good defender, man up. I put Chuck Hayes in a simiilar mold.
Darrel Arthur went to Kansas. Is that were you get the comparison? Otherwise, I don’t see it. I would say their production could be similar, and if that’s the case, then my argument stands. I’d rather have either of the Morris Twins for an average of under $2.5mil. for 4 years with team options than a more talented, less aggresive duplication of something we already have (Hansbrough) at $6.2mil for one year.
Darrel Arthur is a better athlete with less skill than Marcus or Markieff. Marcus is pretty skilled and Markieff is coming along. Their also defensive liabilities, Marcus can’t defend most equally sized big men and Markieff might, but he fouls. Still, they can both shoot, rebound and have a nice tough around the rim. No way to prove this, but I bet if Marcus replaced Beasley next season in the Minny lineup, he may not have a 40 point game, but I bet his season averages wouldn’t be too far below Beasley’s. On second thought, it might take him a year to gain the confidence and feel to do that.
To me this is more about the risk versus reward than specific player vs. player talent/skill. Now, if we could get Beasley for Rush and/or Jones and maybe Price and a 2nd rounder or something crazy like that…well, duh. But you said it Luke, “19/6 for a bad team”. And that’s at SF. Would he be an upgrade moving to PF? Not sure.
peac.e
You gotta look at all the little stuff Hayes does
Plus, 0.7 bpg isn’t bad for a dude who’s probably 6’5 and matching up against near-7 footers night in and night out. Advanced stats on Hayes (at center where he plays most of his minutes): 10 points per 48, 13 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 3.7 assists, 1.4 steals, 52% FG. He’s not going to be a great “rim defending” weak side shot blocker, but he’s just plain frustrating to play against because he’s so tough. He’s a hustle guy, a leader and a helluva hard worker who will be available for what has to be something like $4 million a year. I’d rather have him than McBobs too, because he can play both 4 and 5.
On a side note, Bill Simmons recently recommended in a column that we should trade Hibbert and Posey for Oden (at 4/$40 mil) and a future first. I don’t want any part of Oden, but I couldn’t agree more with this. Am I crazy?
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Yes, you are.
4/$40m mil. for Oden???? Maybe if every year is a team option. I don’t mind moving Hibbert and Posey for a decent young player and a mid-1st rounder (not ideal, but maybe). But, that’s alot of money just to boost the income of Indy area orthopedic surgeons.
peac.e
I don't know
If there was a way to guarantee $20 million of it over the first two and then making the last two non-guaranteed, or heavily insured years like the NFL does…I just have this feeling that 5 years from now we’ll all be wishing we had signed him for $10 mil a year. I don’t know. I think it’s the Indiana in me that wants him to be a stud. But if he was anywhere near as good as he was in high school or at Ohio State he’d be worth SO much more than Hibbert could ever be.
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Sure, but he can't be expecting that kind of long term dough.
I really don’t see any team, other than maybe Portland b/c they have his medical details, devoting that kind of money to him.
I think, if Portland’s just been bluffing about bringing him back and they let him hit the open market, I think the best he could hope for to get some cash and have a chance to prove he’s worth more would be to take like a 2 year front loaded deal for about $11-13mil. over 2 years with the 2nd year being a player option. Any team that signs him to 4 years at $40mil. without atleast 2 of the 3 remaining as team options might be insane. When healthy, he hasn’t even been all that great. Emeka Okafor with less experience and an inch or two of heigth.
Also, I’m not even sure I have all that much Indiana love for him. I got some, but he was born in Buffalo and Mike Davis was the only guy recruiting him before the new NBA draft rule got approved. I don’t know all the details. I think IU was stacked at guard and limited in scholarships at the time, and Greg was only going somewhere that was going to bring in Conoly too, but I think IU woulda made it work. Maybe Conoly was concernd with playing time at IU, not sure, but the bottom line is, he left the state when he could have saved Mike Davis’ job. Not going to get into all that, I’m not upset Davis is gone, but my point stands.
peac.e
Ok. IF Beasley is being brought in as a SF that's different.
And we are subsequently moving Danny and rebuilding. I’d part with a little more.
In fact, how about Danny, Price and the 15th for Beasley and their 1st? If they get a top 3 pick I doubt they give it up, but if they somehow fall to 5 or 6, that could happen.
Or I might even do Danny and Price for Beasley and the 18th (or wherever Memphis ends up). That would be on the merit that Beasley could be resigned for cheaper than Danny’s remaining years and we go into rebuild mode.
If we are just talking about trading cheap building blocks for trying to fit Beasley into our current core, despite his obvious talent, I’m not sure I’m a fan of that. Not unless significant moves are to follow to make it work.
Unfortunately they don’t have any 2nd rounders until 2014. They’re draft stance over the next few years is complicated. They owe a 1st rounder to LAC, but it’s protected this year and unprotected next (the other Staples center team might be a better spot to send Danny if we could land that pick…but I think the Clippers owe their own 2012 to OKC, so they’d have to pick up another 2012 1st since they gave Cleveland their 2011 for taking Davis). Anyway, Minny owes essentially a 2012 to the Clippers. It looks like they got Memphis’s 2011 from Utah and maybe another Utah pick, but it’s very confusing. http://www.draftexpress.com/transactions.php
Could be worth looking into though, if they are tired of finishing with 20 or less wins.
peac.e
I'd do either of those
Minnesota’s one of several lottery teams I think might have a need/desire for a player like Granger. Others include Washington, Cleveland, Utah (NJ Nets pick), Golden State and Houston (if they won the lottery…if they even miss the playoffs). Essentially, any deal that sends back a 20 point (for a bad team) scorer like Beasley who costs 3/4ths or less of what Granger costs would be fine, as long as the pick was high too. I don’t know if the 5th or 6th pick in this draft is high enough to make it worth it to me, but combined with the right player and/or other picks it could work. Although I don’t know that Minny would work with us, given that their GM is a drooling f***tard who’s had trouble getting along with our front office in the past. But maybe with a new GM in town for us and it’s a possibility.
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I meant restricted, not unrestricted
But still. Beasley’s a monster scorer, a little suspect defensively and rebound-wise. Only a second-year man. Probably needs to bulk up some. Plenty of upside.
They’d want more than somebody who rides our bench for a 20 point scorer. Maybe Rush and Dahntay. Then we could trade Hansbrough for a better 2-guard.
Weirdly
Beasley was a beastly rebounder in college. I think a lot of his problems in the NBA have more to do with size than lack of effort. A 6’9, 230 pound guy with a helluva jumper (read: Derrick Williams) can play wherever he wants in college, provided he’s as talented as Beasley is. He’ll always pile up stats, rebounds included, because he’s playing damn-near 40 mpg and is always matched up against guys his same height or shorter, and who are worse athletes. Durant’s rebounding numbers in college were awesome too because he played out of position. But in the pros, against 7-foot bangers who’ve been lifting weights, taking steroids and God knows what else for years and years, they’re kind of ineffectual at the 4-spot. That’s why I’d want Beasley as a 3, except he seems incapable of defending other SFs. He’s like Derrick Williams with a worse attitude.
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