Bad decision by West to come to Indy?
Jackie MacMullan wrote a fine story today about the Celtics wobbly offseason. In the piece, Ray Allen made some interesting comments about David West's decision to sign with Indy. I just wanted to offer my rebuttal to Ray Allen's line of thinking. This is really nothing more than a I-need-to-get-it-off-my-chest moment. You're more than welcome to check it out after jump...
Excerpt #1
Allen first heard of West's potential interest in Boston last month when Allen was playing golf in Augusta with his private banker, who coincidentally also handled West's financial affairs.
"He told me how much I would love [West], that he and I were the same kind of guy -- cognitive thinkers," Allen said. "He said West was interested in coming to the Celtics and would be willing to come for less."
West was interested in coming to the Celtics? You're right, Ray. But West also had known interest in Indy, and I'm guessing he had interest in other teams in need of a big man, and/or teams with cap space. Bottom line was that Boston wasn't his only option, and his other options probably didn't require a complicated sign-and-trade deal to get him there. Oh, and West was going to take less money to play in Boston? Again, you're probably right, Ray, but we need some context. For example, maybe West was aiming for 12-mil-per in free agency, and "less" to him meant 10-mil-per instead. If that was the context, then your team's deal wasn't going to get it done. Less doesn't always mean a guy is going to take the league minimum to play with a Big Three.
Excerpt #2
So why does Allen think West had a change of heart?
"Once it got down to the end, I think his ego kicked back in," Allen said. "He wanted the dollars. I guess it comes down to 'What is a championship worth to you?'
This is what I disdain about the Big-Three mentality developing among NBA players. It's all about them. If someone doesn't make a decision that coincides with their needs and wants, then that guy is all about "ego," or he doesn't care about championships. Maybe his decision was about cash, Ray, I don't know. But let's consider some other options, like, maybe he understood Boston's Big Three is on a sure path of aging and deterioration. Maybe he understood that the East is becoming Miami's and Chicago's conference, and that Indy's future prospects of competing with the Big Boy's are just as good as the prospects of a crumbling threesome who certainly did not the look the part of "contender" against the Heat last season in the playoffs. Maybe he considered that the Celtics--in a condensed season, and without any major roster upgrades--are no better, and likely even worse than its teams that haven't won a championship since 2008. In other words, Going to Boston does not automatically equal a championship, despite the hyperbole, and West has every right to come to that logical conclusion.
Excerpt #3
"Think of all the guys who have made $20 million and could be considered one of the best ever, but they get chided because they never won. We [the Big Three] all had to do less when we won. We're still taking less to make it work. But it's worth it. No one can ever say to KG, Paul or me, 'You guys never got your ring.'"
Again, the Big-Three mentality rears its conceited head. I'm assuming, Ray, since you brought up $20 million that when you say your Big Three gave up less to win, you're talking about cash. Again, you're right, you guys did give up less, but, of course, context is completely ignored. How much easier it must be to "take less" when you've already had your $100 million dollar contract. When you've already had a chance to be the Alpha dog on a team. West hasn't been and never will be a 20-million-dollar guy. He's spent the vast majority of his career being underpaid and likely underappreciated, so, if anyone deserves to make a financial decision over an appealing, yet no-guaranteed-championship decision, it's probably him. And, of course, no one can take yours, KG's, and Pierce's ring away, but guess what? If West wins a championship in Indy (extremely unlikely, I admit), then not only can no one take his ring away, but no one could say he needed to gang up with other superior players to accomplish such a feat.
Sorry if this post had a "petty" feel to it, but for whatever reason, Allen's comments got my blood going, and my Blue-and-Gold-Protective Meter hit over drive. I'm extremely excited West decided to come to Indy, and I hope his unpopular decision pays off in a way that other athletes take notice that big markets, and playing with your superstar pals isn't the only path to basketball success.
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who cares wat ray says
celtics arent going anywhere this year.might not even make the playoffs(sounds crazy) but there old and that will play a huge factor in their season. and it sounds like rondo is becoming a cancer to the team with his attitude. ok theyll probably make the playoffs. theyre not getting anymore rings though
I think they'll make the playoffs, but...
If any of their main guys goes down their bench = horrific. They have J.O. starting at center and you know he’ll last all of 10 games before he goes down, Garnett has had knee problems, Allen is a 2 guard on old legs…
Wouldn’t mind seeing them suck
He is just worried...
that West may well make the difference between Indy and Boston when it comes to playoff seeding. :)
My hope with DWest is that he enjoys it in Indy so much and if the team continues to improve he takes a ‘veteran-leader-but-still-important-contributor’ mentality in two years time and signs for a few more years because Indy will be what he knows and is becoming a genuine contender. Lots ifs/whens/buts/maybes, but still the hope.
Allen says West decision was about ego. Lol
Him saying he’s “shocked” West choose to come to Indiana instead of playing with “the big three” screams of his own arrogance and ego. Money could’ve factored in, sure, but I don’t think West would’ve went to a cellar dweller for 400 g’s more. Indiana is on the rise, and Boston will soon be on a steep decline. That article pointed out at one point that Indiana won less than 40 games last year, but didn’t point out we were above .500 post JOB, and made a strong showing in the playoffs….Oh well, screw Allen! He’s a hypocrite pinhead!
"Winning isn't everything, but it beats anything that comes in second."
--Paul "Bear" Bryant
by BigBlackRichard on Dec 20, 2011 12:54 AM EST reply actions
Maybe.....
We should just ignore his remarks and not dignify it with a fanpost
Rec... Ignore Him
Pacer Fans should be excited about the addition of West and not focused on what a player on an unrelated Team has to say.
You don’t like it Ray? Good, we don’t give a s&!#.
Proudly banned from Stampede Blue
Naptown Tees: http://www.naptowntees.us/
When I read the title...
I thought, “You’ve got to be kidding me. Surely no one here thinks this is a bad idea. Has to be an article from Boston, LA, Chicago, or New York. You know one of those ‘reporters’ who doesn’t know a damn thing about the Pacers but pretends to know everything about them.”
Then I learned I was half-right and someone was complaining about a rotting corpse talking. I’m afraid I don’t much care for the opinions of the Geriatric, they simply ramble on far too much.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Dec 20, 2011 2:00 AM EST reply actions
Rec. Good Post
I love everyone on the cornrows community, but for all of the recent fan post containing 2 sentences, THIS is what a proper fan post should look like.
On the celtics:
The Celtics have some lots of issues to deal with this season; no center, no Jeff Greene, a brutal schedule on old legs, and possibly the worst depth in the big three era, Boston might not be the contenders all the experts are penciling them in as.
Also, people blame the heat a lot for the NBA turing into a hostage holdout cell for ego maniac superstars colluding to join forces but this whole process was started by the Celtics. Garnett and Piercewere such douch bags that Lebron and Wade could no longer take their sneering and jeering and decided they had enough.
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 2:10 AM EST reply actions
I agree that Boston is gonna regress this year.
I just don’t agree that losing Jeff Green is an issue.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Dec 20, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think they were banking on jeff green to be the super utility off the bench
Jeff Green isn’t great but he is still their best scoring option off the bench, without him, they counting on Brandon Bass and Marquis Daniels, that’s pretty disastrous. By the time the Celtics get to the finals, who knows any of the main 3 will still be standing by then.
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
correction:
I meant to say when they get to the final week not the finals, god knows Celtics won’t make it this season.
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 5:29 AM EST up reply actions
Did you see their preseason game?
Talk about low scoring, Daniels seems to be starting for them by the way. Anyways, I suppose they have some degree of hope that Jujuan Johnson, E’Twaun Moore, or Avery Bradley could fill that scoring hole. Though I wouldn’t hold my breath, they undoubtedly have to win with defense.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Dec 20, 2011 6:12 AM EST up reply actions
hahahaha, E'Twaun and Avery Bradley as go to scorers
definitely penciling in Boston as one of my 5 teams to watch on League Pass!!!!
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
I rather hope some Boston Fans are holding their breath.
It will make the world a better place.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."
- Jack Dempsey
by infinityzero.systemerror on Dec 20, 2011 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
I actually don't hate Boston as much as I hate Chicago
no sight is worst to behold than a red jersey in Conseco. Yeah, Paul Pierce is a douch, but I think for the most part celtic fans are mostly diehards and knowledgeable unlike Bulls fans who are by far the most obnoxious, pompous pile of steaming dogsh*t in the universe.
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
They're not
I hate them, but there are several other fan bases I hate more. In order:
1. Pittsburgh Steelers fans-These people have nothing to live for other than the Steelers, and as a lifelong Colts fan, the Steelers are naturally the team I hate more than any other, followed closely by…
2. New England Patriots fans-Mostly racist douchenozzles with entitlement problems. Screw them.
3. Lakers fans-Rich bastards who’ve had to root for a bad team like a combined six years over the life of the NBA. Screw THEM.
4. Heat fans-Had no problem with Heat fans two years ago, because they didn’t exist. Define bandwagon jumpers.
5. Philadelphia Eagles fans-Santa-booing, concussion-cheering anti-Christs.
6. Chicago Cubs fans-Wrigley frat boys and date rapists, the lot of ’em.
Bulls fans rank somewhere down the list between Dallas Cowboys fans and THE Ohio State University fans.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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I was referring to basketball only
I hate Laker fans as well because they are literally all over the country, and they are the most spoiled basketball fans anywhere. However, because of the regional closeness between Chicago and Indianapolis, Bulls fans have continually bully the Pacers fan base over the years, sure the Lakers and the Celtic fans show up during those respective teams’ visits to conseco, but Bulls fans go a step further. They tend to rub it in our face like Pacer fans are second class citizens. Sure are there maybe two or three bulls fans out of a thousand that are half decent human beings, sure, I’ll give them that but the rest of them are all a bunch of wild animals.
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but they've taken their lumps if they've been following the team for a long time
There’s nothing worse than a fanbase like LA’s, who has no concept of how to root for a losing team. I’ll give you the Bulls fans are assholes, but it’s a general attitude in Chicago. They’re fighters. That’s why Bulls/Sox fans often hate Cubs fans. They’re not fighters. They’re just drunks. Old school Cubs fans not so much, but these new kids are all either hipsters or frat boys. It costs $12 for a beer in Wrigleyville now, and the Cubs atmosphere has totally changed from “traditional woe is me” story to just flat out arrogance. Bulls/Sox/Bears fans are arrogant, but they’re blue collar.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
lol, taken their lumps
in my eyes, if you win 6 championships over the course of what, 10 years, you lose all right to complain about your team. and as a person who lived in chicago for 7 years, i personally hate sox fans much more than cubs fans. at least in my area, i got the impression that the people who were sox fans were just sox fans to be different. half the sox fans in my area didn’t even really follow the team until 05. i know that there are a lot of fake cubs fans as well, but something has to be said for a team averaging a near sellout every game of the season when that team hasn’t won anything in over a century. my bottom line is this: when the sox won the world series, people who don’t follow sports didn’t really notice. if/when (more likely if haha) the cubs win the world series, you bet your ass that EVERYONE in chicago will know about it. Just my personal opinion.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
CHIEF
by wonillionaire on Dec 20, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
*close to a century
my mistake
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
CHIEF
by wonillionaire on Dec 20, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
^ i am an idiot.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
CHIEF
by wonillionaire on Dec 20, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
"To be honest with you, I'm just happy for him that he's healthy and can continue playing."
KG trying to jinx us _
Karma’s a b$%^#, Gets you every time, its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!" -the Akron Upstart
by latrell spreewel on Dec 20, 2011 5:40 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not taking anything seriously from the beautiful mind that brought us Jesus Shuttlesworth
rec’d
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Celtics
Their like the steelers of the NBA. The reality is their too old to really have a chance but, their EGO is as strong as it was in their prime.
by GrangerSCK33 on Dec 20, 2011 6:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions
They're MAD!
They know to make it through this tough season is going to be difficult on older players. They don’t want to run into us in the playoffs because we can shut them down on D and now score enough points to win that series. The Celtics see with that move that the power is shifting to the Pacers, and its going to be like the “old days” (when Bird left until big three trades) when we OWNED them. Of course beating TWON and Pierce isn’t as good as beat Pierce, Allen, and Garnett.
Check out my website at www.bradwellssucks.com
Personally
I wouldn’t mind seeing a 4 5 matchup with us and Boston. That way if Chicago is this year’s 2 (I think so) then we can draw them in the second round. Maybe beat their ass this time.
good post!
I felt the same way when I read about Allen’s comments. Glenn rebuts Ray pretty well, but here are a couple other points I want to make:
1. Ray Allen’s source of info on David West is his private banker, with whom he plays golf at Augusta? Now of course, as a Pacer fan I’m no advocate of shooting up the stripclub types of hobbies, but when he said that, the sickly old man that was Ray Allen’s street cred just gasped his last and died. Also, when this is how you begin your anecdotes, it’s a good sign you’re getting up there in years, which reinforces Glenn’s second point.
2. Maybe West is looking out for himself, but not just for financial reasons. Perhaps West looked at the Celtics and saw a team with about 4 power forwards and no true center (JO has never been a true center. Plus, he’ll likely be hurt by February) and thought to himself, “hmmm, how long before they plug me and my recovering knee into the five spot to guard guys like Howard and Lopez?”
3. Ray Allen has a lot of nerve spouting that “take less money to work with us and win a title” crap when the player they wanted to trade for West was Jermaine O’Neal. You know, the guy who signed with Boston last year for the veteran minimum to help them win a title. How’s that ubuntu working out for you, JO? Would it have been worth signing with the Celtics to be sent to New Orleans as trade filler a year later?
Thanks for adding on
You make some good points that I overlooked. Never thought about Ray’s sketchy source of info. I believe JO is actually making upwards toward 6-mil-per year, but your point still stands. These Big-Three types take less money, yet it’s still easily an eight-figure annual salary, and they expect other guys to come sign with them for a pittance in comparison without nearly the roster security.
Dont think so
Ray Allen is a tool bag. What makes the Celtics better than the Pacers this year anyway? They are just upset that they literally landed NOBODY in free agency.
"No one can ever say to KG, Paul or me, 'You guys never got your ring.'"
No, Ray, they can’t say that. However, year down the road they will write about how your team underachieved in the grand scheme of things. There is no way that those guys SHOULDN’T have won 2 of the last 3 championships, but they squandered it to 6-for-24 Kobe in the Finals.
Pacers = On their way up, Celtics = On their way down. Decision wasn’t that hard.
PS. I already disliked Ray Allen
Just for breaking Reggie’s record, but that was a very irrational reason. Thanks for giving me a logical reason to dislike you, Ray.

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