O'Brien's most famous supporter comments on firing
Harry Truman, during his time in the White House, was a considered a poor president. The conventional wisdom of the 1950s viewed him as potentially one of the worst in American history. He was dumb and bad then, but today President Truman is correctly remembered as one of the country’s best chief executives. Truman did nothing to affect this change, passed no new legislation, gave no fresh speeches or military orders. Merely, a lot of people realized a lot of other people were wrong.
It was quite the turnaround.
Certainly, none of that relates in any way to Jim O’Brien’s performance as Pacers head coach, but it is just one of many, many examples in American history, in human history, in universal history, or whatever kind of history you choose, sports history even, of conventional wisdom being wrong.
Want a basketball example? Doc Rivers. Loathed, hated, mocked by Celtics fans, until he took their team to two NBA Finals. Rivers was a dolt, but a coach learns quite a bit, apparently, once Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen dress in his locker room.
The popular sentiment among Indiana fans is to condemn O’Brien, fired Sunday in his fourth season here. In the interests of keeping this column clean, I won’t cull some of the more hateful rhetoric toward our team’s coach, for which the worst offenders should hang their head in shame. He was still the Pacers’ coach, after all.
But I will personalize these remarks somewhat. I like Jim O’Brien. This is fairly well-known. I’m one of the few Pacers fans who refuses to toe the line like a good little sheep and rage against the foibles of "JOB." Quite often, I get categorized as a Jim O’Brien defender, and that’s fine.
I wouldn’t have fired O’Brien today, or at any point this season, and perhaps not even in April, depending on what we saw from our team in the second half of the season.
The lessons of the Indianapolis Colts’ success are many, but the least of them is hardly continuity and stability. When it comes to coaching, especially, I believe many in professional sports are fired too quickly. As soon as a team struggles, boom, talk radio is on the coach’s job status like syrup on a pancake.
That doesn’t mean stability for stability’s sake with an unproven leader or system. But try as they might, no anti-O’Brien fan can make a compelling case that O’Brien or his system never succeeded.
O’Brien knows how to take a team to the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. Did it twice, in Boston and in Philadelphia. That track record accounted for a large part of my faith in him to do the same in Indiana.
His offensive system, of spacing the court with shooters and using the 3-point shot to open lanes for driving and cutting, works with the right players, and the front office did a decent job tailoring the roster to O’Brien’s pretty-decent concepts. Two years ago, Indiana ranked fifth in the NBA in scoring.
In hindsight, that 2008-’09 season is even more remarkable given that the Pacers didn’t have a Kobe Bryant or Steve Nash, the sort of coach’s-dream facilitator enjoyed by some of the other Top-5 offensive units.
O’Brien’s best four players that year, in terms of the offense, were Danny Granger (his excellent breakout season), Mike Dunleavy, T.J. Ford, and Troy Murphy. One of those guys (Dunleavy) played in only 18 games. Two of them (Ford and Murphy) are held in contempt by some of the same folks who despise O’Brien.
So how on God’s green earth did a team relying heavily upon Marquis Daniels, Jarrett Jack, Stephen Graham, the original deer-in-the-headlights versions of Rush/Hibbert, and Rasho Freaking Nesterovic manufacture one of the NBA’s best offenses?
Given that Daniels, Jack, Graham, and Nesterovic have played only minor roles in other cities after leaving Indianapolis, a rational train of thought might credit O’Brien’s system. But I forgot the part where suggesting competency on the part of O’Brien amounts to treason.
Look, joking aside, of course the man had faults. Few coaches don’t. But accurately pointing out mistakes and weaknesses doesn’t poison the entirety of a coach’s performance.
Fans who represent my beliefs honestly know I’m not an O’Brien apologist (if one accepts the premise that an apology is owed). This hasn’t been O’Brien’s best season in Indiana. I’ll gladly point out the problems, if you’d like.
Obie badly mishandled the power forward position, causing the team to play four-on-five offensively early on with Josh McRoberts, who owns no discernible offensive skill other than dunking ability, and had not done anything in his NBA career to suggest use as a starter. O’Brien played James Posey at the four, despite the veteran’s size and age disadvantages and the fact that other coaches had used Posey exclusively at small forward. Posey had a 3-point shot, which O’Brien liked, but running Posey out there on the 10 percent chance he’d have a game like the Hornets game (Dec. 20, 15 points) didn’t make up for the rest of the nights in which JP was essentially useless. It took O’Brien a ridiculous 32 games to realize Tyler Hansbrough was the best power forward on the roster (as I enjoyed Bird quietly alluding to in yesterday’s press conference).
O’Brien couldn’t settle on a nine-man rotation, which good teams win with. True, O’Brien never had a good team, and most of the so-called rotation issues were driven by the constant string of injuries the past two years, but it certainly was bothersome this season, as I pointed out several times on my Twitter account. Hansbrough’s in, Hansbrough’s out, Jones is in, Jones is out, Foster’s out, Foster’s in, George is in, George is out, and so on.
In Milwaukee, on a last-second play in which the Bucks’ only chance was to get a tip-in, O’Brien used the 7’2 Hibbert to guard the inbounder, rather than the basket. Didn’t like it.
Against San Antonio at home, Posey finally sat for 48 minutes, then with under a second to play, removed his warm-up and took the most important shot of the game ice-cold. Didn’t like it.
In Golden State, on Monta Ellis’ game winning shot, Rush got isolated on Ellis, even though Rush is better defending bigger players and got his ankles broken by a quick crossover that Ford or Collison might’ve contained. Didn’t like it.
The offense, for whatever reason, endured a lot of winnable games shooting under 40 percent. Didn’t like it.
But guess what? Evaluating a coach is tough. Players give us a bunch of statistics. A coach’s performance, other than wins and losses, is subjective, and even wins and losses are contained by high-and-low-end possibilities. For example, O’Brien wasn’t winning 55 games in Indiana. Gregg Popovich or Jerry Sloan wouldn’t have won 55 games in Indiana, either, with O’Brien’s rosters.
So just spouting off 121-169 (Obie’s overall record here) doesn’t do a whole lot. (O’Brien was 182-158 outside of Indy, for those wondering.) Bird said it himself yesterday: "Just because he’s the head coach doesn’t mean he’s the reason we’ve lost all these games."
What’s more, that Indiana record doesn’t come with the injury asterisk that it should. Followers of the Pacers on a game-by-game basis under O’Brien know this is the first healthy team he’s had in three years.
Don’t take my word. When the aforementioned Rivers came through Indianapolis this season, he made a telling remark about our coaching staff: "They’ve had a three-year stretch where you can’t have as many injuries as they’ve had, so [O’Brien] has a chance to actually coach his team for the first time in awhile."
And that’s correct. Even in 2007-’08, O’Brien’s first year, his point guard (Jamaal Tinsley) and best player (Jermaine O’Neal) combined to play in only 70 of a possible 162 games (less than 50 percent). The issues of Dunleavy’s knee and Granger’s foot the next two seasons, among many other ailments, are of such recent importance that they don’t need to be rehashed.
Okay, says the irritated O’Brien basher, what about this year? He had his players in uniform, not in suits. Clearly 17-27 is a bad record. To which an O’Brien defender says: Well, bad teams have bad records.
Coaches, as Pacers analyst Tim Donahue astutely pointed out the other day, are assigned far too much influence by fans. This is a player’s league.
The Pacers lack talent. Enough talent. Seasoned talent. Talent that knows how to win. Star talent. Diverse talent. Consistent talent.
Listening to Frank Vogel try to convince himself otherwise was one of the few comedic highlights yesterday.
"We’ve got a good basketball team," Vogel said. "I’m taking over a good basketball team. I fully expect us to make the playoffs this year. I believe this is a good basketball team."
With all due respect to Coach Vogel (who I hope succeeds early and often, by the way), the standard for use of the word ‘good’ needs to be lowered.
Healthy and good teams don’t end up 17-27.
And that sums up the Jim O’Brien era, in my eyes. He never had a good team, and he had one healthy team, whose season O’Brien didn’t even get to coach to its completion.
That’s a fair chance only in this insane, fire-so-and-so.net age, where fans who couldn’t coach a team if they received Vince Lombardi’s implanted brain decide on an impulse that the guys running their team are idiots and ask for termination.
Had the players quit on O’Brien, as they did Rick Carlisle, I would support the firing, as I did Carlisle’s. But I don’t think our guys ever stopped playing hard.
ESPN’s John Hollinger has a lot of credibility. He talks to scouts and general managers and all sorts of basketball minds. His job is to analyze the NBA.
Hollinger said last week that O’Brien is the "least of [Indy’s] problems."
The view outside of this fan base is, as the Miami Herald reported, that O’Brien is a "respected coach." Bill Simmons, author of The Book of Basketball and famous Celtics fan, has written that Obie is "an underrated coach who worked a borderline miracle with the '02 and '03 Celtics."
I agree with them. I think O’Brien’s a smart guy who knows basketball and deserved better. A better fate. Better players. And, of course, better treatment from fans.
Unfortunately, that means I don’t get to celebrate like so many other Pacer people at news of his demise. You seem to be having fun. My advice: enjoy it while it lasts, because the smart bet is we’re about to find out O’Brien wasn’t the problem.
I said there were a few funny moments at Conseco Sunday. Other than Vogel’s overly-optimistic evaluation, there was the fact that Frank has had but one boss as a coach in the NBA. One boss in Boston, Philadelphia, and Indiana. Jim O’Brien.
"He’s been a mentor to me in every sense of the word, and I wouldn’t be here without him," Vogel said.
The irony of O’Brien-bashers celebrating the promotion of an O’Brien loyalist is almost too much. After all, it’s not like Vogel learned just about everything he knows about the NBA from the awful, bad, terrible O’Brien. Maybe there won’t be much change, after all!
From a standpoint of spacing the court…
At any rate, I appreciate those who read this with an open mind to try to understand my rather lonely point-of-view. I wish Jim well and thank him for working hard to try to win. If nothing else, we ought to be able to agree on that much.
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I think we could agree that this is the most talented roster he's dealt with during his tenure...
With the added talent, he was still on track for a season, in terms of wins and losses, just as bad as the one before it. I can agree it wasn’t the most desirable of positions he came into and I don’t think anyone would have won 50 games with the teams he has been given. However, I didn’t like the way he handled players in various fashions. I suppose in principle his system would work, but when you don’t have the personnel for it, you have to change to fit their skill sets. I really thought that Dahntay was the best SG a year ago and that he deserved time over the always infuriating Brandon Rush. Unfortunately, his rather infamous stubbornness proved to strong an obstacle and we saw a player who played averaged 30 MPG come out with a 9.6 PER. He would criticize players, nothing wrong with that particularly, but when you do it after that player has a career game, it just doesn’t sit right in my mind. Not a big fan of doing so in the media either. His rotation had been a mystery for some time now, in that it seems to defy logic at times. You would think that when a player plays well, he would get rewarded for doing so, even if only a little bit. I’m was not a fan of JOB, I understand that the team’s he dealt with weren’t gonna be contenders and I didn’t expect them to be. I wouldn’t have blamed him to heavily, but when the same problems would continue to show up on a consistent basis it becomes hard to say he doesn’t deserve blame. Though I may be blinded by my hate for his hair and his stubborn, irritating personality.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jan 31, 2011 7:55 AM EST reply actions
Nice write-up by the way...
It’s impressive enough to almost make myself reconsider my thoughts on JOB… almost.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jan 31, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
His system helped Murph and Dunleavy be successfull, but this was a year of change. New players where emerging as our team leaders, and Obrien failed to adapt quick enough, and held strong to “his system.” Clearly this team needs to use more pick and roll, and let Collison dominate the ball (somewhat). Obriens faliure to change to a sytem that featured DC, Hibbert, Granger, and Hansbourgh, is why he is sitting at home with his play book right now. . .
Great write up
Disagree with a lot of it, but I thought it was very thoughtful, well written and full of good points. I tried to be sympathetic to JOB, but I just don’t think his coaching style worked with these players. Not saying the system is completely broken, but his methods of man management seemed to hurt confidence and moral and his rotations often took players playing well off the court for extended periods of time. I always got the feeling he was cerebral and his style would have worked better with a good, experienced team, but with a bad team made up of a lot of young players it often seemed counter-productive. JOB, I’m glad to see you go, best of luck for your future.
Really like this article
You make a ton of good points and I think that JOB is a decent coach in the right set of circumstances. He just wasn’t able to capitalize on the strengths of his team. I agree that we have more problems than JOB, but we do have a lot of young talent (Hansbrough) that should help us to improve. I think we’ve underachieved so far and we have a chance to make a run. Now for Roy…
Can't lie
I’m gonna miss Jim O’brien balding, Frustrated, hung-over from the night before face on the sidelines..this article kinda makes ya feel bad for him..the players needed a change and a playoff opprotunity..2nd half of the season should be an exciting one
by TruestBlue77 on Jan 31, 2011 10:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't like JOB
Nor am I sad that he’s leaving. His rotations were mind boggling and his public bashing of players always left a terrible taste in my mouth. However, this post is one of the most well written things I’ve read on this board. Its nice to see thoughtful, well written opinions (even if they differ from my own). Thanks for your thoughts and for the nice write up.
Good stuff
I can always appreciate a counterpoint to the majority. I, too, often felt like a JOB defender at times. JOB’s a really good guy and decent coach with some sprinklings of success throughout his career. The 24-hour JOB bashers are in for a rude awakening when they find out in the coming months that the losing wasn’t just simply a product of JOB’s substitution patterns and personality.
All that being said, I did feel as though one of your points was a bit off. You implied that JOB deserves some slack due to some major injuries he’s had to deal with during his tenure. You then imply JOB should be given some slack for losing when the team is healthy due to lack of talent. I don’t know if you can have both arguments. I think your ultimate point is that JOB never had the talent to succeed, so I think that viewpoint makes the injuries’ excuse irrelevant. Whether or not the injuries had occurred, the Pacers still lacked the talent to win, right?
The reason why I think it was JOB’s time dealt with all-encompassing circumstances. No matter the circumstance; no matter if there were injuries or not; no matter if there was lack of talent or an infusion of talent (DC); no matter if they were depending on young guys or wily vets; no matter if players were working their butts off during the offseason or not, the result was always the same: 10-18 games below .500. From an on-the-court perspective, there was never any reason to believe things were moving forward or getting better. The only reason for hope was the soon-to-be coming financial flexibility and that really had nothing to do with JOB. By firing JOB, there’s now some reason for fans to renew their interest and for some long overdue questions (about coaching) to be answered.
This just doesn't make sense.
You may say they had the top offenses those years, but because of that the defense really suffered. And before you start dragging numbers into this you just need to look at the bottom line…
We stunk. Horribly.
At that same time we also had several losing streaks that we faced with opponents with lesser records than we had.
Another thing that frustrated the entire fanbase was the lack of playing time for both Rush and Hibbert during their first two seasons. Sitting Hibbert in favor of matching up with the opponent. Make them match up to us! Playing Rasho all those minutes during Roy’s rookie year set him back considerably.
I had my moments defending Jim and blaming a lot of it on the talent. But in hindsight the talent wasn’t being utilized properly from the get-go. Sure, you want to win, but these players are/were the future of the franchise and practice along can’t develop them.
Heck, O’Brien was basically run out of Boston because he wouldn’t play the young players. He refused to.
So, good riddance, we can all get on with our lives.
- Tony Laurenzana (duke dynamite)
If you think Truman "gave no fresh military orders"...
You need to research two very important events in American military history:
1. NSC-68. A briefing to Truman by National Security Council chairman Paul Nietze calling for total, massive armament of nuclear weapons to defend ourselves against an epically over-hyped, unfounded Communist threat. To Truman’s credit, he balked at it initially. Which leads to point 2:
2. The Korean War. As soon as Communist North Korea marched into South Korea, this provided the impetus for Truman to install NSC-68 as American foreign policy. This war was the first that pitted a super power fighting for IDEALOGICAL reasons instead of a clear physical threat.
While they might not be “fresh” per se, in retrospect, these decisions by Truman created the groundwork for today’s over-militarization of the world by US forces and constantly over-blowing foreign threats (Vietnam and Iraq namely). I guess it depends on your viewpoint, but those decisions by Truman abetted a militaristic foreign policy above all else, which has led to many of our country’s problems.
Hopefully JOB didn’t make any decisions that, in hindsight, will hurt the Pacers going forward!
I believe he's saying
That in the time it took for opinion of Truman to change he didn’t do anything new, obviously being out of office. Just simply that opinion changed with hindsight.
Larry Bird turned Troy Murphy into Darren Collison
Truman F'ed Up!
Truman relieved MacArthur who wanted to nuke China out of Korea (with plans for nuking 10 of their most populous cities if need be), and today the US wouldn’t be threatened on economic/military fronts by China if Truman hadn’t F’ed up! Truman lost his nerve after Hiroshima and Nagasaki!
Even JOB doesn’t deserve to be compared to Truman!
by FortWayneKarl on Jan 31, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Truman fucked up by deciding not to let MacArthur kill millions and millions of people, to which had no choice but to live in a communist nation. Yeah, that’s really cool. Besides, Mao Tse Tung killed upwards of 30 million of his own people. Let him take all the bad PR.
by hoosier3060 on Jan 31, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I never thought I’d see such a well written history lesson on Harry S. Truman on Indy Cornrows. Yeah… outta left field. lol. I never thought of the Truman doctrine bleeding over after the cold war. Very interesting (and good) point.
by hoosier3060 on Jan 31, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
This is true
But I kinda feel like it’s probably best to end this discussion here…
Larry Bird turned Troy Murphy into Darren Collison
job article
Good article. I am not a fan of JOB but I do agree that the record is more than just his fault. having said that, the record is what it is and therefore changes need to have been made and the head coach is the first change that needed to be made. I do wish the best for him and hope he gets a team that will do well under his style. But if i was an owner of a nba team, I don`t believe i would hire him.
Most famous supporter after Bird bailed????
Then JOB’s in trouble! He should have trouble getting a job as a high school JV coach, and deservably so!
You have good points
It wouldn’t be easy for any coach to win here (unless we make a big trade or a huge signing in FA next offseason). I defended JOB the past few seasons, but this season was pretty ridiculous for a few reasons:
- As you mentioned, the rotations were atrocious. Hansbrough, George and Price should have played in every game they were healthy for. Price is at least as good as Ford and has a future with the team. Hansbrough is by far the best we have at PF right now and George obviously has the talent to play minutes for this team (as he has shown). Don’t play guys who have no future with this team, and don’t say you were doing it because they gave them the best chance to win. Just because they had a good first month and everyone got excited didn’t mean it was going to continue (and it most definitely didn’t).
- How many big leads did the Pacers lose in the second half of games? This isn’t all his fault, but if your opponent is making a run and your offense is stagnant or out of control you call a timeout and set up a play for a good shot. Not only did he often wait too long to call the timeouts (OKC is the one that comes directly to mind), but his play calling out of timeouts was often terrible.
- He destroyed Hibbert’s confidence. Hibbert was having himself a nice start to the season and then to tell the media, “Roy’s not having a very good season.” Is stupid. I like having a third year center averaging a shade under 15 points, almost 9 boards, 3 assists and almost 2 blocks a game. People could argue that JOB’s words should have motivated Roy to play even better, but instead he slumps. Coaching the NBA is just as much about handling talent and egos as it is about X’s and O’s and he screwed the pooch with Roy. I’m shocked he didn’t kill other players confidence too, playing Ford in crunch-time over Collison. Playing Psycho-T for one game and then sitting him for 4 or 5. Just poor handling of players overall.
- The key for me, as I look at the Eastern Conference, is that I think we have a team that is about as good or better than Philly, Milwaukee and Charlotte but they all have better records than we do. I would even argue we are almost as good as New York, the difference is they are coached better than the Pacers and they have a guy who can score at will and create his own shot (they have a Batman and we have a Robin). We should be hovering around .500 and making the playoffs as the 7th seed, and maybe stealing a win at home. Now I think it’d be amazing if we even made the playoffs at all.
Overall I’m glad he’s gone. I don’t necessarily think the Pacers are going to make the playoffs this year because of it, but at least the young guys will get consistent minutes. Regardless of what happens coaching wise, if we really want to compete we need a better starting PF (I don’t see Psycho-T being more than a very good 6th man), a guy who can either score at will or at least create his own shot since Danny is proving he’s not reliable doing this at the end of games. I don’t care if we draft one, trade for one, or one of our young guys becomes one…we just desperately need one.
nice (long) post but...
how can you seriously say that coaches have little influence on a team??? you have to sit and think about how YOU were when you were in your early 20’s, and then try to imagine if you had a superior that didn’t praise or nurture good work, but instead undersold every accomplishment you made?
Yes, the players have some responsibility in our awful record, however if, say, you’re roy hibbert. you get in there and you make some bad plays – now you’re nervous cause you know your coach will take you out of the game quickly if you keep this up. finally your coach has had enough and takes you out. rather than be able to make up for your mistake and maybe turn your game around, you are now left to stew in yoru failure as your team suffers even more because new players are in and adjustments need to be made.
how can you defend a coach who provides such an atmosphere??? i think the most telling stat was the minutes in last night’s game. when is the last time all starters have had near or over 30 minutes like that?
keep apologizing for obrien as he fades into oblivion because he was too stubborn to adjust his coaching methods when they clearly weren’t working
Ding Dong...the wicked witch is DEAD!!!!
Bottom line is that JOB did so many things as a coach that made absolutely NO sense. His coaching style, substitution patterns, timeouts, game management (especially his end of game mgmt) was just too atrocious on so many occasions over the past 3.5 years. I don’t know HOW Larry Bird didn’t fire JOB at the end of last year. It was SO obvious to even casual basketball fans that JOB didn’t know HOW to manage a typical NBA game and that he had LOST this team!!! It just seemed that JOB couldn’t ‘deviate’ from HIS system and/or couldn’t modify HIS system to the talented basketball players that Larry Bird had assembled for him to coach. It also seemed that he had ‘favorites’ and played non-athletic players way too many minutes over his more athletic (albeit younger) players.
For most Indy fans, it was embarrassing to SEE a Pacer team (with it’s storied history of superior black athletes that won ABA Championships) playing 3-4 non-athletic guys at one time in many games over the past few years. Mike Dunleavy had also appeared to be arrogant due to his ‘veteran’ status and familiarity with JOB’s system (even though he couldn’t stop ANYONE on defense and looked mostly like a bench player). Yes, he had ONE game whereas he scored ‘lights-out’ and made all Pacer fans proud that night against Denver. But, he was and still IS a one-dimensional player. Mike is a player that you give ‘more’ minutes ONLY if he has it going ‘offensively’. Even casual fans know that Mike will always be one of our weak spots on defense that our opponents will look to exploit at every opportunity.
Refreshingly, Frank Vogel substituted in his first game as HC the way JOB should have been substituting the past 3.5 yrs. He gave more minutes to our young studs and kept the young guys in the game instead of substituting for them (as JOB had done even when the young guys had it going). Frank’s philosophy will be if the young guys are making mistakes, they will be (at least) making them while playing hard. Paul George and Tyler Hansbrough and Roy HIbbert, and Darren Collison proved tonite that they can play at a high level in this league despite making mistakes (i.e. turnovers or defensive lapses). As PG mentioned in tonite’s Post Game interviews, he just needed to learn what works in the NBA and what doesn’t. He now knows that he has to shoot mid-range shots before he attempts any 3pt shots. Any shooter (from 5th Grade up) knows this statement to be true. You have to shoot (and make) a few mid-range shots first to get your rhythm. But, JOB had attempted to park him on the 3pt line from jump street and he couldn’t adjust to this new concept of how he had always shot the basketball. He also didn’t look like the same guy we had ALL seen in college and during preseason.
Same with Lance Stephenson. He had a nice shooting stroke in preseason, looked extremely competitive, and had most fans excited about the upcoming NBA Season. Instead of seeing on the court competing night-in and night-out against other NBA talent, we haven’t see him at all and were told that his defense stunk. Say what? You mean to tell me that Mike Dunleavy plays better defense than Lance Stephenson plays or could play after learning the ropes of NBA defensive play. C’mon…..what a freaking joke and waste of talent sitting inactive every single game this year!!! That alone….turned me OFF completely to JOB this year!!!

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