Simple Idea
Troy Murphy's trade exception + a protected first rounder for Bulls forward Taj Gibson? I know he's not flashy and his upside isn't terribly high, but he is solid and we need a forward like him next to Roy to help man the paint. Is this too much to give up? Gibson is on the block according to ESPN rumors. I know its kind of a buzz-kill with the Randolph rumor of this morning, but Gibson is a traditional 4, while Randolph is sort of a hybrid. And we all remember what happened with the Pacers when they tried to start both Granger and Harrington, another hybrid 3-4 man. So thoughts on trying to pony up for Taj?
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Don't hate it.
He’d be decent I think.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 3, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
I'd go for it
As long as the draft pick was top ten protected. If Hansbrough can be healthy, I think a PF tandam with Gibson would be alright.
Honestly I don’t know a lot about Taj. I know he’s athletic and he has a bright future. I wanna make a trade that sends Rudy Fernandez, TJ Ford, and Jeff Foster to New York. We get Eddy Curry and Anthony Randolph. Portland gets our 1st rounder. New York gets a couple extra role players and Rudy Fernandez while getting rid of the Eddy Curry headache but still getting back final-year contracts. We drop Eddy and sign Magnum while Anthony Randolph starts.
this isn't such a bad trade, except
eddie curry is a known cancer off and on the court, and would be an absolute headache.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 3, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
much easier said than done
curry has a player option of 11.2 mill for next season, that is alot of money and headache, remember we’re still paying jamaal tinsley next season, so, this is not the time to be eating more money.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
No, its just as easily said as done
You just cut him. It’s different than Tins because there were multiple years. I would even be okay with buying out Dunleavy and paying him to sit at home if we can’t move him and it would save 5% on his contract. We will pay Curry to sit home next season and possibly move him for an asset at the deadline if a team wants an expiring contract.
The only thing I would add to your trade, B-Huse, is protection of the first rounder (i.e. top 15 protected in 2011, top 10, in 2012, and unprotected by 2013. The hope would be we are a playoff team by 2013 and the Blazers only get a middle or late first rounder, which is all the deserve for Rudy).
I would also venture a guess that it may take more than that still to make the Knicks bite, hopefully no more than another 2nd rounder, but I could see them demanding a good young asset. I would be willing to cut out the talk of a three way deal all together and try to just make something happen with NYK. I could also see them being interested in a three way deal with CHA for Dampiers deal that could save a team as much as 13million next season.
if its so easy to cut him, then why haven't the Knicks done it yet?
Curry is currently the worst asset in the nba for a few years now, and he practically sat home the entire 2009 season, once we have him on our hands we are practically stuck with him. Although we all would like to rid ourselves of dunleavy, ford and foster’s contract, eddie curry is a whole new level of toxic poison.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Eddy Curry does not have a player option after this year. Apparently the Randolph deal was just the Pacers offering up a first for Randolph. Portland wasn’t involved.
on the knicks team salary
it clearly says that Curry is guaranteed 11.27 mils for 2010-2011.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It is that easy
The Knicks did not want to pay Curry to sit at home. I guess they thought he could bring something to the table last year.
What would be stopping the Pacers from cutting him if we traded for him? He is in the FINAL year of his deal and he sucks.
Also
what do you mean stuck with him? This would be no different than how the Knicks traded for TMac last year. I really think it would be advantageous for you to research how the NBA works with handling contracts and players in Curry’s situation. I would also take Curry and his contract over Brand or Okafor and their contracts. He is no longer nearly the worst asset in the league.
much appreciated for the insult
If you did your research you would find that Curry has many off court issues that don’t come along with Brand and Tmac. If you’ve been paying attention the last couple of years, Eddie Curry has been known to show up to camp grossly over weight, his work ethic has been proven to be lacking, none of which can be said of either Brand or Mcgrady. To say that we can just cut him is ridiculous. If we can just cut players, than Ford would have been cut already.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I know Curry's issues
and we have proven that we are willing to pay players to stay away. Tinsley? Shawn Williams?
We can just cut him. Ask anyone, seriously. You can just cut him. We have to eat his salary, but who cares because we would be ridding ourselves of equal salary in the deal. I do not think you understand.
What's not to understand
I don’t think YOU understand how much 11.2 mil is. First of all, we are not ridding ourselves of equal parts if the parts we send over actually are going to contribute minutes, with Curry, there is no chance in hell that Bird allows him to play a single minute. altough the Pacers hate Ford right now, he does indeed have basketball value, the same goes for all our trade baits, but that is not the case with Curry. Remember, we still have Tinsley’s salary, along with Stephenson’s uncertainty, I think you are quite delusional to say that we can cut players as we wish, that is not the way to run a organization, especially one in dire financial trouble.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 5, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe im missing something..
what in the hell did curry ever do to bird to keep him fromletting him play? Is there something physically wrong with curry, seems like he has in the past been a very talented rbounder and defender. Really tho what did he do to bird for him not to be able to play? i dnt get it.
by Justin Arnold on Sep 5, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
you are definitely missing something....
Eddie Curry was accused of sexually harrassing his limo driver, his girl friend was murdered, and he has some how gone broke while making over over 30 mil in his career, he has also been overweight comin to camp every single year, if there is a player that Larry Bird would not want on the Pacers, it is Eddie Curry.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 6, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Murked?
That’s a new one for me.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
*
killed (and I think it’s ‘merked,’ but I can’t be sure). You need to listen to more rap music. Especially if you’re going to be a Lance Stephenson fan.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Hmm...
Because listening to rap music and liking the way a guy plays are certainly connected.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
About what you said in regards to Eddy Curry?
I can’t really laugh cuz I feel like it’s a little too possible.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
no , what nukem said..
i must really not care for the knicks , cause i didnt know that. good thing is if i didnt know about it the lance thing should blow over too.
by Justin Arnold on Sep 6, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
The Curry thing happened a while ago I guess. I could see why people would forget about it. Seeing as Lance’s gf didn’t die, you would have to think it’d blow over faster.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just sayin
Lance is a straight gangsta. He almost merked his girl down a flight of steps. I bet he listens to Gucci Mane, as listening to Gucci Mane IS directly connected with being an idiot.
Though don’t get me wrong, I love rap music. I just hate idiots.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
I listen to some rap music.
I just don’t like the shxt about cappin hoes and bitches so much.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm tired of arguing about Curry
I guess I’m the delusional one because I believe there would be upside in getting young players like Randolph that could help this franchise, with the requirement that we take a guy on a 1 year deal.
A few final points to clarify myself
My next point is if trading for Curry and getting rid of him saves us money/headache in the long term, it would be stupid not to cut or buyout him, or other players out.
Bearwith me here:
Remember in NBA trades, the salaries that leave each team have to nearly match up in order for the deal to happen, so not only would we be taking on Curry’s 11million but we would be ridding ourselves of 11million or so immediately, leaving out current cap looking the same but possibly changing the way our future cap looks.
Now say we make a deal that involves Posey’s 2 year contracts at 7ish Million a year, Dahntay’s 2 year contact at 2.5million a year, and Solo’s 1 year deal at 1.5million. We would be taking on a grand total of Eddy Curry and 11million dollars, however we would be effectively saving 10million dollars long term because Dahntay and Posey have 2 year contracts. So as a team, as you put it, in dire financial trouble, saving 10 million dollars at the cost of a year of Posey and Dahntay would be fantastic. But wait there is more.
After landing Curry, we would not just merely cut him. We would instead call his agent and discuss a buyout and even if this buyout saves only 5-10% that could be almost a million dollars, bringing the grand total of saved money to $11million dollars. Well worth it, in my opinion.
I have never once argued for trading for guy and consistently dumping them, however, if trading for a player then cutting him saves us money, we must do so.
The point I am attempting to make, and have been attempting to make, is that there is upside for us by taking on Eddy Curry in the right deal because the Knicks want to get rid of him and will be willing to give up a young asset or take on long term money to save some cash now. And with the CBA Deal coming up, I would rather have more money on the books in 10/11 rather than 11/12 and beyond.
I am, by no means, arguing that Curry would help this franchise by playing, however if we can get out of a multi year deal or 2, and save money longterm, by letting the Knicks save some $ this year, then it would be a smart move on our part.
With all that said, I do not envision Curry getting moved at all, unless it brings NYK Dampier back (who has a non guaranteed deal and they could cut him before a certain date in October and save 13million immediately. If I were the Pacers GM, Dampier could possibly be my current top target). The reason NYK will not move Curry is because in the NBA, with the way the cap is structured almost all the teams spend over the cap and pay into the luxury tax, many times not allowing them to go after free agents in the offseason. This is why there is value in expiring deals, such as Curry’s, because once his contract comes off the books they will then have cap room to sign another player, that is, if 11million gets them under the cap. Lastly, If a trade is made with the Knicks that involves Carmelo or Paul before the year’s end, I would bet my bottom dollar Curry will be involved due to this expiring $11million.
Yea you guys made this a lot harder and a lot more angry than it needs to be. Curry’s contract ends at the same time as TJ Ford’s and Jeff Foster’s. So doing this trade will not make us take more money on, it just replaces their contracts (it’s actually less money). I wouldn’t want him to play single minute in a Pacers jersey and this trade was my idea. I just care about Anthony Randolph, that’s it.
No, no, no, no, no
you still don’t get it. it s not the same beause Ford, Foster and dunleatually are actually tradeable assets that can improve our team during the middle of the season, With Eddie Curry, there is little that we will get back from him.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 6, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
If a team wants to free up cap space in 2011/2012
they would be willing to trade for him. I would guess that is the only reason a team would want Foster or Dunleavy as well. A team may want Ford to actually play.
this trade can't happen as long as our roster stays at 16
by latrell spreewel on Sep 3, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions
dude Miami's is at 18
There is plenty of time to take care of things. Having the extra players makes it easier to match salaries in trades with other teams.
The heat and the Pacers are in two very different positions.
and we don’t have that much time left, the seaon is right around the corner; if i’m not mistaken, training camp starts somewhere in the end of september.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We need to make moves
if we were to make the cuts now, which we are going to at the end of September, it would take away a lot of roster flexibility that can help us make a trade. Anyway, we currently have 15 guys on the roster, which is the maximum. Rolle has not been signed and it would be much less than shocking to see us not sign him this year.
We couldy cut Solo and it wouldn’t be unreasonable to see Stephenson or Price cut as well, but why make these moves now? It would be dumb.
Now instead of using time as an excuse (I believe the Pacers have a few trade ideas before the start of the season that they want to explore) why don’t you come up with a reasonable argument as to why we need to have 15 on the roster? Yeah Miami is a different team and in a different situation as a title contender, but I think the fact that they have 18 players on the roster indicates that having more than 15 does not matter to ANY NBA teams, so why do you care about getting under 15?
I am a reasonable guy who you can argue with, just relax.
You're too relaxed!!!!!!
you are definetly entitled to your opinion. However, I’m thinking like a deficit commision; all of the Pacers 15 players except price are on guaranteed contracts, to simply cut players and have them sit at home seems like a waste of money to me, that is why I prefer to dealt them rather than just cut them.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly so look at your first post and tell me how that makes sense
“this trade can’t happen as long as our roster stays at 16”
Having 16 or 17 players makes it easier to match salaries and make trades. The reality is we have 15 players currently signed, so I don’t know what you are worried about.
hold on a minute
I just want to ask you, does every player on the Heat team have guaranteed contracts?
by latrell spreewel on Sep 5, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
They will be paying all 18 players something
where it is a buyout or contract.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm
You will see the money slotted in once the terms become public.
I would not hate this trade but
I would rather see us make this move:
I am a big fan of the intangibles that Maxiell brings to the table as a first post off the bench (or a starter at first, if we have to but a 7th or 8th man long term). Jerebko also showed some good potential and could be a longterm solution at the 4, though not the type that may fit next to Hibby.
Seems pretty unlikely.
From what I can gather the Pistons rather like Jerebko and somehow I don’t think the guys we would be sending are exactly something to make them bite. Also, Taj Gibson is younger than Maxiell, rebounds better (<what we need honestly), and defends at a similar, if not better level. I don’t trust most European players not named Nowitzki. I guess what I’m saying is… I would want Taj more.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 4, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see where you are coming from
But to save the money from Max’s deal, the Pistons could do this.
I can assure you, given equal minutes that the next few season, Max would produce as well if not better than Taj. Granted, Taj is younger by only 2 years, but at the cost of a 1st rounder, I would not be all about it adding him.
Yeah...
A first rounder does seem kinda steep. I can see the positives of a guy like Maxiell too. He has experience, which I believe is a pretty important. Better yet, he has experience of having been on a championship team, they’ve won one since he’s been there right? I wouldn’t throw a fit if we got him and Jerebko. Although, I think most Europeans forwards are Troy Murphy clones. No defense with nice jump shots. I know that’s a generalization, but it’s how I feel about them. Like I said, I wouldn’t hate getting either Taj or Maxiell. That being said, I wouldn’t die if we don’t do anything either.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 4, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Jason Maxielle is an older and poor man's version of Dejaun Blair
This guy is certainly no push over, but his lack of height limits his capabilities against bigger and more physical players.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Latrell
Easy on the big brash comments that have little to no reasoning behind them.
Max is just as good as Blair, with out the injury concerns.
Kenny, you're killin me here!!!!!!!
Explain to me how Maxielle, who is 6 years older, is better than Blair. here, I’ll even give you both of their regular season stats from 2009-2010.
Blair: MPG: 18.2, FG% .56%, RPG 6.4, PPG 7.8, BPG .5
Max: MPG: 20.4 FG% .51%, RPG 5.3, PPG 6.8, BPG .5
From last season’s play, Blair was better with less minutes played, and he played all 82 games plus playoffs. He definitely wasn’t an injury concern last year. To speculate oninjuries is comical, since that is how the Pacers got Granger, am I not correct?
by latrell spreewel on Sep 4, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Blair is better
there is no doubt. Error in my statement. However the crap you have listed there proves little to nothing. Lets put Maxiell next to Tim Duncan and see what happens.
On the injury thing, Blair has no ACLs, so at least he doesn’t have to worry about tearing them right?
apology accepted
the first few words of your response were music to my ears. Yeah whatever, just call me out when he gets injured, until then lets just see how things play out.
by latrell spreewel on Sep 5, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
latrell, do you know what acls are? and what they do? its a miracle the guy can play at all
its not if its when he gets injured and its likely to end his career unfortunately.
by Justin Arnold on Sep 5, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Use hoopsdata the next time you spout off stats though
I really wish everyone on this site would. Look at the player’s advanced numbers and things like APER and TRR can really tell the story of how good a player is. These stats also back you up on your Blair/Maxiell case way more than the stuff you listed.
Wilcox is on the last year of the his deal, so I bet they just ride him out for this year before they add salary
DET is attempting to give Max away because he has 2 years left and they want to rebuild and they may be willing to part with Jerebko to get out from under Maxiell’s deal.
It still seems like neither of these guys are starters...
if we were able to grab Anthony Randolph successfully AND add a guy I’d rather have it be Taj Gibson because he blocks shots and is a better value (still on rookie contract.) Contrary to popular belief, Maxiell isn’t that great of a rebounder overall (only 1.5 more than Hibbert per 48 mins last year.)
I would love to do this
That is actually exactly what I am suggesting in pairing up Randolph with a bruiser. I would also rather have Gibson than Maxiell if all things were equal, but the price it would take to Gibson, we might as well just get Max, who really is just as good as Gibson, if not better, according to all the advanced stats.
Quick Suggestion
per 48 numbers are not very indicative of the players actual value. I would suggest using the site hoopdata.com. If you look, Maxiell’s True Rebound Rate (percent of rebounds grabbed by the player while he is on the court) is higher than Gibson’s and much higher than Hibbert’s.
That is not only a suggestion to you, but a suggestion to everyone
The advanced stats that are posted on hoopdata are eye opening and it can certainly make you reevaluate many players.
or maybe something like this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2b8gkef
rip molded his game and unrelenting workout and work ethic after reggies, and would be a great veteran presence, could teach rush a thing or two, plus be a team leader, maxiel and wilcox could be good additions to start till hans can go 100% no restrictions. think this team would def. be a playoff team.
idnt think chi coming off gibson, cheap and either ny coming off randolph cheap
Naw
not the years of RIP at that price. After the CBA, we will see RIP and players of his level, have much less value.
Agreed
Gibson will probably cost us a first rounder. There are ways to obtain a player just as good for much less.
lineup
hibbert / wilcox / foster / solo
Maxiel / hans / wilcox / mcbob
granger / george / posey
rip / rush / george / stevenson
collison / price / stevenson
Not sure Detroit gives up Hamilton that easily
More importantly his defense is lacking and we would probably need a better defensive SG who can better cover for Collison. Hamilton is kind of redundant to Granger.
Why would we want him back then?
He doesn’t make us an instant contender and doesn’t provide the defense that we need to have from the other backcourt spot. We’d be paying him all that money to make us a 45 win team (mediocre)
the 3 years on his deal scare me and if it screws up our long term plan, than obviously its not something i'd want to do...
that being said a 45 win team in the east is good for a 7th or 8th seed, and im sure all can agree that the playoffs would prolly be a good thing for this franchise. Rip gives us more dfense than reggie ever did so i dnt think that necessarily is a huge detriment, and if we had rush and his dfense coming off the bench it might make up for it a bit. I like Rip cause he hits about everything from 15 – 18 ft. at a high percentage which is nice to have when most the team jacks up 3s. Not to mention he averaged almost 19ppg coming off the bench for detroit and considering our main three woul be granger, collison, and hibbert, i think hed be a great fit. The biggest xfactor for me in bringing in Rip would be his leadership and what he could teach these guys about what it takes to win playing team ball without a kobe or lebron tyoe superstar. His conditioning and how he moves without the ball is what rush needs to become and could make rush a really good player.(yes im stilling beating that horse) Like i said if it screws up our cap situation too much, than it’s not worth it , buut if we could make it work, he’d be agreat edition on the court and in the locker room. Also, it would def. make detroit wanna do a deal w maxiel and wilcox and or jerebko, giving us def. and rebooundin we need, especially till hans can go w/o restrictions.
by Justin Arnold on Sep 5, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Reggie played better D than RIP
I agree that RIP would provide us with some positives at the 2 spot, but for his deal, I just do not think it is worth it.
That's kind of the main problem though...
it throws our cap severely out of whack as well as limiting what we can do in the next few years of his deal in terms of roster moves. In addition to the handicap his contract provides, the team on the floor still would have some significant deficiencies (perimeter defense being foremost.) All-in-all, I’m not convinced that this is a move worth making.
I don’t. If we were a contender today, and needed a shooting guard…. I would try and pick him up in a heartbeat. But we need every available asset to try and bring young talent to this team. Including our expiring deals.
if thats the case then like i said just go for maxiel and wilcox or jerebko, kinda like the rip idea though, if it cant work it cant work,
by Justin Arnold on Sep 5, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilcox will be tough
he is in the final year of his deal. We will actually have to give something up to get him. We could get Max for pennies, that is why I think he is a value, though not as good as Taj, Blair, or maybe even Wilcox, but because he is so cheap, he would be worth it.
i agree , ehich is why i was talking about taking on Rip instead of getting rid of an asset
by Justin Arnold on Sep 6, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want Rip.
First, he appears to be on a pretty steady decline as a player. Yes, he scored a lot, but his FG % has gone down for two consecutive years. Including a simply abysmal year behind the arc last year, shot only 29%. He’s getting older in a bad way. His defense is bad, plain and simple.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 6, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Another player I would check out
is Mareese Speights. His value is way down and I don’t think he will live up to his original billing but he could be a nice little asset.
There were rumors early in the summer of him being on the Block
now that they have a glut of post players.
yeah id prolly rather just get maxiel and wilcox or jerebko..
but id like rip for hie leadership and what he could teach rush. i think rush could be in that type of mold if someone can get thru to him about that type of ethic. I dnt give up on someone for pot, strong leadership can get thru to him. he (rip)also has the ability to give us a consistent jumper and it makes the deal all the more sweeter for detroit , i think theyd def ship him. depends on what bird wants to do but if they wanna make the playoffs this year that deal would make it happen.
Our own management doesn't see rush in our future
give that up, they have mentioned many times the young guys that are our future and NEVER mention rush.
To be fair,
that is a conclusion that you are jumping to. It would be very silly for our FO to cut Rush currently.
With that said, it is a very possible conclusion you have jumped to, but I just hope you are not correct because that would be another player who’s value has just been completely ruined in their time with Indy.

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