J.Crawford ansd J.Smith Could put us in the conference finals
by Trent Sutton on Aug 31, 2010 1:00 PM EDT
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We need them!!!
If we landed an Alanta trade for J Crawford and J.Smith, we would be a definate contender. I dont know the Numbers but Im sure we could do it. Help me guys, How could we make this happen. I need some senarios. I think Ford, Rush and Dunlevy or Posey would do it. I think Dunlevy should have a good season finally being 100% but Posey plays defense so its a toss up between the 2. But if we land this trade, the only teams in our way would be Miami & Boston!!! (Yes I think we will beat Orlando with this trade, Chicago too),but I need some scenarios Come on guys!! Show me what you got!!!
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I don’t know where this Josh Smith obsession come from, but I think is a impossible dream.
Crawford is good but I seriously doubt that he would come to Indy.
Smith is even better, and even more impossible to come.
None of the trades ideas posted seems enough to get Smith.
And I think its almost a desperate move…we just need to add someone good enough to be our starting PF, develop the team chemistry with Collison and wait for the end of the season to get rid of all the bad contracts to add someone good and available.
Pacers Forever
We are not getting Smith for a pile of our trash.
A team that gives Joe Johnson that kind of money does not just turn around and dump their young starting PF. Especially not one involved with talks to extent Horford.
They are “all in” right now. Even if they dump smith for nothing (which is what this trade is) they are still capped out.
We are not getting Smith unless we give up Collinson, Granger, or Hibbert as they are our only proven talent on our team. You can throw George in there based on potential if you want.
having jamal crawford and josh smith will not get us to the eastern conf. finals. that would mean that we would most likely have to beat out either a) miami b) orlando c) boston or d) chicago, which i really dont see happening, as much as i like to be optimistic about the team. i dont want crawford. jamal crawford is a one-dimensional player. all he does is score. he would also be taking up minutes that could be used towards developing collison, paul george, and (hopefully) stephenson. and if crawford and smith couldn’t get atlanta (a more talented team than the pacers, imo) to the eastern conf finals, i don’t see how they’ll get the pacers that far.
Harper's on Miller, McKey, gets in to Miller for the win and...
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Looking at it from the atlanta point of view...
they might say, man if we could get Hibbert and Granger we could be in the finals. Lets send them Bibby and Crawford, the numbers work…
And it sounds just as ridiculous as the kinds of things we are posting to get Smith.
We just need to flip our expirings for a serviceable 4 that can play for a couple years and possibly a pick. By then we will know what Hansbrough is and can decide if we need to use the pick or the cap room to bring in the long term solution at PF.
We are playing for a chance to lose in the first round of the playoffs. There is no need to sell the farm so that we can lose to Orlando or Boston instead of Miami.
We are not getting Josh Smith
It looks like Atlanta is going to have this final year to be a contender. They will eat all the money they have to inorder to win this season. They will not trade 2 of their best players before this season.
My big question is, why can’t everyone who posts these trades put themselves in the other team’s shoes? This is a pipe dream and unless we add in 2 first rounders, it ain’t happenin. And, Crawford and Smith would not make us contenders. Miami, Boston, and Orlando would all still be better.
Exactly Kenny.
You know what would work?
Collinson and Dunleavy for Josh Smith (after october of course)
Feels there PG hole, allows Horford to move over. We get the young 4 we need
Hibbert and Dunleavy for Josh Smith
Fills there C hole and allows Horford to move over
Would the pacers do either of these? definitely not the first (I would hope not) and the hawks wouldn’t do the second. But THESE ARE THE TRADES YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT
Talent for Talent unless a team is actually trying to shed money. The Hawks arent.
They want to see Jeff Teague
He could be good and make Collison useless to them. They look like they want to give Teague, who was drafted and rated well ahead of Collison last season.
thats unfortunate
I only saw him a little bit last year but gah… he looked terrible. Stats are not nice to him as well.
Was the title of this post a joke?
Atlanta had Crawford and Smith last season. They also had Johnson and Horford which are at worst equal to Granger and Hibbert. How in the world does this put us into the conference finals?
Levy?
Did you breakdown Hansbrough’s game last season? If you did, could you direct me to the link? I remember you saying recently that based on some of your advanced statistic models, you think McRoberts could surprise this season, Do you have similar faith in Hansbrough?
Yes and Yes.
Here is the Hansbrough link. It’s not a complete breakdown, just a recap of two posts at other sights he appeared in. The basic gist of it, was that despite his low FG% which I would hope should improve substantially this season, his per 40 scoring average was among the best rookies and very respectable compared to other players league wide. In addition he was a much better rebounder than we expected, particularly on the offensive end.
I think Hansbrough will surprise people and be very productive. I know not everyone loves the Wins Produced model, but if you look at his numbers from last season, the only areas where he posted less than an average NBA power forward were Points Per Shot, Adjusted FG%, Blocks per 48, Assists per 48 and Personal Fouls per 48. He was actually an above average rebounder which I don’t think anyone expected when he was drafted. There is no reason to think his other numbers will decline, but there is every reason to expect some improvement. A full season and some confidence should let him play more under control, improving his PPS, FG%, Ast, and PF numbers. He is never going to be a shot blocker, but I think we can live with that considering what else he gives us.
That being said I think McRoberts is going to end up the starter and probably contribute more this year. The first reason is minutes. My guess is that Hansbrough may be on a minute restriction to begin the year, until the training staff is sure he is all the way back. This would make McRoberts that starter to begin the year in my mind. If you look at McRoberts’ numbers in the same Wins Produced post you see he was already way above average last season. In addition I think McRoberts skills make him a more likely starter. Josh has a more complimentary skill set on offense which may make him a better choice to play with Granger, Hibbert and the first unit. Hansbrough needs the ball to be effective, and may work better coming off the bench and being the primary low post option with the 2nd unit, instead of starting and fighting Hibbert for post touches. In addition, McRoberts length and athleticism would seem to make him a better defensive option next to Hibbert.
I am excited to see both of these players this year, for Hansbrough it really comes down to how healthy he is starting the year.
Great
Fabulous stuff, thanks. One more question. I wasn’t expecting Hansbrough to be a good rebounder in the NBA because frankly he was an average one in college. To his credit he impressed in that regard, especially as an offensive rebounder. But why? It’s fact that Tyler had an abysmal FG% last season and rebounded many of his own missed shots. So, if Tyler does indeed improve his FG% does that mean his rebounding will suffer to a degree?
by Hinrich10 on Sep 1, 2010 10:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I took a look at his Rebound % from last year and senior year of college
His Ken Pomeroy’s college stats page doesn’t include overall rebound% so we just have the offensive and defensive breakdowns to look at. Hansbrough’s DRB% was exactly the same last season as his senior year of college, 16.8%. Maintaining this number is actually pretty impressive since he was playing against bigger, stronger opponents in the NBA.
His ORB% was 10.9% his senior year of college and 12.7% last season with Indiana. Some of this increase probably comes from rebounding his own misses, but even with that taken into account the fact the he upped this percentage against bigger, stronger opponents is impressive. This may be an anomaly, and this may be partially a function of rebounding his own misses. I would also like to think that a piece of it is him having a different role in the NBA. At UNC he was “The Guy” responsible primarily for scoring and surrounded by dirty work frontcourt role players like Brandan Wright, Deon Thompson and Ed Davis. With Indiana he is the dirty work guy. He knows he will get offensive touches, but I think he has an awareness that rebounding an energy are more important contributions from him than scoring.
I can’t make any promises, but I would like to look into the rebounding his own misses thing. I will try at some point over the next few weeks to take a look at that and see what the numbers say.
collison, george and hans is the difference, i woulda said lance but you know
outside the granger hibbert, i think we have a much better all around team
by Justin Arnold on Aug 31, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty ballsy saying the 10 seed last year (only after winning at the end for no reason) is a better all around team than the 3rd seed last year.
well im definitely ballsy
if you operate under the assumption that johnson, horford and granger, hibbert are a wash (whether its true or not) and put smith and crawford on our team, then yes we have a much better team. so from collison down we have better depth and talent with out a doubt.
by Justin Arnold on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say we’re better now… but you can’t compare the records directly.
We had a MASSIVE amount of injuries. Plus assuming Collison is competent it should raise the overall play considering PG is the most or second most important position.
by P J on Sep 2, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
for your viewing pleasures (team rosters minus granger, hibbert, crawford,smith,johnson and horford)
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS
Darren Collison G 6-0 160 08/23/1987 UCLA 1
17 Mike Dunleavy F-G 6-9 230 09/15/1980 Duke 8
5 T.J. Ford G 6-0 165 03/24/1983 Texas 6
10 Jeff Foster C 6-11 250 01/16/1977 Texas State 11
Paul George F 6-8 210 05/02/1990 Fresno State R
50 Tyler Hansbrough F 6-9 250 11/03/1985 North Carolina 1
13 Luther Head (FA) G 6-3 185 11/26/1982 Illinois 5
1 Dahntay Jones G-F 6-6 210 12/27/1980 Duke 7
44 Solomon Jones F 6-10 245 07/16/1984 South Florida 4
32 Josh McRoberts F 6-10 240 02/28/1987 Duke 3
James Posey F 6-8 217 01/13/1977 Xavier (Ohio) 11
22 A.J. Price G 6-2 181 10/07/1986 Connecticut 1
Magnum Rolle ** F 6-11 225 02/03/1986 Louisiana Tech R
25 Brandon Rush G 6-6 210 07/07/1985 Kansas 2
Lance Stephenson G 6-5 210 09/05/1990 Cincinnati R
2 Earl Watson (FA) G 6-1 185 06/12/1979 UCLA 9
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS
10 Mike Bibby G 6-2 195 05/13/1978 Arizona 12
34 Jason Collins C 7-0 255 12/02/1978 Stanford 9
Jordan Crawford G 6-4 195 10/23/1988 Xavier (Ohio) R
1 Maurice Evans G-F 6-5 220 11/08/1978 Texas 7
33 Randolph Morris (FA) C 6-11 275 01/02/1986 Kentucky 4
27 Zaza Pachulia C-F 6-11 275 02/10/1984 Tbilisi, Georgia 7
Josh Powell F-C 6-9 240 01/25/1983 North Carolina State 5
32 Joe Smith (FA) F-C 6-10 225 07/26/1975 Maryland 15
Pape Sy ** F 6-7 225 04/04/1988 R
0 Jeff Teague G 6-2 180 06/10/1988 Wake Forest 1
6 Mario West (FA) G 6-5 210 06/19/1984 Georgia Tech 3
24 Marvin Williams F 6
A post that looks like this
provides anything except view pleasure. I am pretty sure that I am cross-eyed now, thanks.
you do realize you take away their 4 best and only our 2 'best'(?).
No matter how you read that it’s unfair.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Sep 1, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
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