Deadline Deals: Who has the most salary to cut? Who could the Pacers get for cheap?
by LukeNukem on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 PM EDT
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PrintAs we all know, the next CBA is a mystery. I think we can all agree that the cap's going to get a little harder, no? So for the Pacers, who should (hopefully) still have a crap-load of cap space, this coming trade deadline could be an early (or late, depending on how you look at it) Christmas. Then again, the Pacers could stand pat, scared to death not to take on too much salary. Either way, there's a chance the Pacers can cash in. Here's a list of teams that could be close to the salary cap to the point that they're scared, and want to unload some long deals (and it'll help if they suck by the deadline too, and have given up on making the playoffs). I'll also take a look at any players we might be interested in from each team.
I apologize in advance for how long this thing's going to be.
Cap outlook: The Celtics have only 8 guys signed for next year and look like they're already going to be over the cap by $20 million or more (remember, we have no idea how the CBA will change things).
Players we might have a shot at: None. Rajon Rondo's the only one we'll want, but after last post-season, he's effectively untouchable (damn, I wish we could've traded for him right before they signed him to his extension!). The Celtics might go even deeper into luxury tax territory if they extend Kendrick Perkins, who will be a free agent (and we don't want).
Cap outlook: As of this instant, the Bobcats are paying the luxury tax for a squad that just barely made the Eastern Conference playoffs last year...plus Tyrus Thomas (go figure). Next year, barring any big trades before deadline, they'll need to field half a roster and will be less than $10 mil under the salary cap.
Players we might have a shot at: Really Thomas is their only terrible contract, and they just signed him (for too much). Stephen Jackson could be available but I'm sure he's still exiled from Indy. The two I'll have my eye on are Gerald Wallace and Boris Diaw. Diaw's the more realistic, and safer option. He's only got two years and $18 mil left on his deal, and we'd get him with a year and a half left at deadline for, say T.J. Ford (who the Bobcats have tried to trade for in the past). Does Diaw help us much? No. I don't even think he's that much of an upgrade over Murphy, if he's an upgrade at all. He's not a natural PF, and doesn't rebound well enough to compliment Hibbert. As Jay-Z says, "on to the next one..."
Cap outlook: The Cavs, by next deadline, will still be trying to dig themselves out of the financial hole they got themselves in trying to appease LeBron. As of now they have basically half a roster to fill with anywhere from $10-$15 million to spend. They could be frugal and sign all short-term cheap contracts next off-season, or they could dump some salaries this deadline and be even more frugal.
Players we might have a shot at: Maurice Williams, Anderson Varejao and Antawn Jamison are all holdovers from the LeBron ass-kissing era, and could probably all be had in a Cleveland house-cleaning effort. I don't really like any of them, but I'd take all of them if the carrot was J.J. Hickson. Like the four of them (approx $31 mil) for Murphy/Dunleavy/Ford (approx $30 m).
Cap outlook: The Mavs are almost certainly going to again be luxury tax payers, as they've already committed what will probably be more than (or equal to) the 2011 salary cap to just seven players. However, Mark Cuban is not likely to be a deadline dumper, as he always assumes he can be a title contender (and he's usually right).
Players we might have a shot at: I think this really depends on how the Mavs approach next year's free agency period. If they're as aggressive as they were this off-season (remember when they were talking to LeBron?) they could try to shave off some space for a run at Carmelo Anthony. In doing so, they could kick us Shawn Marion and Jason Terry for Murphy and Dunleavy, or Marion and Rodrigue Beaubois for Dunleavy by himself. That would have to be considered a steal, even if Marion is approaching "dead weight" territory in his career.
Cap outlook: The Pistons are in the same sort of trouble the Cavs are in; bad contracts and very few good players. They will, however, need some space to make some extension offers, probably to Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey, and almost certainly to Jonas Jerebko.
Players we might have a shot at: None of the ones they'll be willing to part with (Richard Hamilton, Charlie V, Ben Gordon) are that good. I like Jason Maxiell, and he's on the block. A combination of him and WIll Bynum for Ford would be fair, but wouldn't really make us that much better. I'd take Hamilton for Murphy if they threw in Jerebko, but that's unlikely.
Cap outlook: This is an interesting one because Golden State is actually not in too bad shape, cap wise for 2011-12. They'll need to be frugal to fill out their lineup, but likely won't come close to the cap, thanks to the Maggette trade. I include them because they've actually mentioned they might be interested in dealing at the deadline. If they want to build around Steph Curry, David Lee and, say, Carmelo, they could clear space immediately by shipping off...
Players we might have a shot at: ...Andris Biedrins and Monta Ellis. Those are the Warriors' only two remaining lengthy contracts (not including Lee). If they're convinced they can land a true star in free agency next year (and again, it'll be hard to tell since the CBA situation is so up in the air) they might ship us those two for Murphy and Ford. I expect a draft pick would have to be involved.
Cap outlook: This is a tough one, because Yao might retire. If he doesn't, the Rockets will go into next season with he, and Aaron Brooks (who won't play for his qualifier) unsigned, and still be approximately $15 mil under the cap. That's not good for them.
Players we might have a shot at: Trevor Ariza and Kevin Martin are both possibilities, if Houston wants (and is able) to keep Yao and Brooks. I'd take Martin in a heartbeat, but it might involve a draft pick. I don't think Ariza can play the 2, so I don't really want him. It might be possible to land Brooks in a sign and trade next summer, but at the deadline, Ariza for Ford might be the only option with Houston.
LA Clippers
Cap outlook: Their situation isn't terrible, but the Clips are traditionally tight wads, and they'll need to sign around 7-8 players and will only have probably $15ish million to do it. It would help them out a lot to get rid of a bad contract.
Players we might have a shot at: Chris Kaman and Baron Davis come to mind, but with each one's injury history, I would expect a draft pick as a throw-in compensation. I'd give up my own draft pick if they sent Davis and Eric Gordon for Dunleavy and Foster.
LA Lakers
Cap outlook: I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that the Lakers are astronomically deep into the luxury tax, have been for years, and will be in 2011-12.
Players we might have a shot at: That said, none of the players they may be willing to deal will be worth anything to us, or simply won't be welcome here. Start praying now that Bird doesn't trade for Luke Walton at the deadline...
Cap outlook: Even after Peja Stojakovic expires, the Hornets will be in need of some cap relief. Though they probably won't be near the luxury tax (if there still is such a thing) they will need to make some changes if they ever expect to appease Paul. If they're completely rebuilding, they might be even more willing to part with some contracts. Right now they're looking at what will be close to a $50 million payroll for a team that's far from contending, and still needs 4-6 roster pieces (and may be looking to longterm Marcus Thornton, depending on how good he is in 2010-11).
Players we might have a shot at: As everyone here knows, Okafor, Posey and Paul are pretty much the only long-term deals, and Okafor/Posey are the ones that have been hampering the Hornets for the last year. The Pacers could, as many here have discussed, take back either or both of those contracts along with Darren Collison for Murphy and Foster, or Ford, Foster and Rush (or something along those lines). One possibility that hasn't been talked about much is going after David West, and agreeing to take back Posey in the package. Murphy and Solomon Jones would work financially, though its doubtful they'd give up West unless they'd already resigned themselves that they'd trade Paul elsewhere, since unlike Okafor and Posey, West is actually worth the money he's being paid.
Cap outlook: At $92 million against the cap for 2011-12, as of this writing, the Magic are the NBA team that could be most desperately looking to save money at this coming deadline or before. They're unique, however, in that they will probably be willing to part with some big deals, but will most certainly want to stay competitive and remain players in any trade that could bring back Paul. They'll almost certainly renounce Vince Carter's $18 million team option. I can't imagine a situation where they don't. Even so, they'll still be significantly over the cap, I would think.
Players we might have a shot at: Jameer Nelson, Marcin Gortat, Brandon Bass and even Rashard Lewis may become available in the coming months if Orlando thinks they can get better (or stay the same) and save money with the same move. Nelson and Bass have been discussed a lot on this site, but Lewis is the one who might be most attainable. The Magic have to realize they dramatically overpaid him, and a Ford/Murphy for Lewis deal might seem pretty attractive if they think they have a shot at Paul and/or Carmelo in the future. I don't know what position Lewis would play here, but hell, he's a former All-Star who can score with the best of them. He may be worth a look.
Cap outlook: Not good. The Sixers basically have about 85% of what I estimate the new salary cap to be, wrapped up in five players, and three of them pretty much play the same position (Lou Williams, Evan Turner and Andre Igoudala). They'll get discounts on Jrue Holiday and Marreese Speights by picking up team options on each, but meanwhile it's going to be their top priority to have enough cash in hand to make a competitive offer for Thad Young, who will be a RFA. When it's all said and done, if they don't make some changes before long, they will be in a dire financial situation next summer, and my guess is they won't become championship contenders between now and then, so the LT money's not likely going to be worth it.
Players we might have a shot at: Take your pick. Really, anyone on their team, minus Turner and probably Holiday, could end up on the trade block between now and next summer. My personal favorite, as we've discussed here before, is Andre Igoudala (and his name flew around in trade rumors earlier this off-season). The Sixers were so desperate to rid themselves of Elton Brand's atrocious deal they considered giving up the #2 overall pick for virtually nothing, so they still might...really anything is possible. I'd be happy to take back Holiday (who was very good as a starter last year, especially on defense), Speights and Brand for Murphy and Ford. I'd throw in the necessary filler (Dunleavy and Solomon Jones) and a protected pick if they added Andre Igoudala to that package. But then, we'd be pretty much swapping rosters with a team that was actually worse than us last year...
Cap outlook: The Spurs' cap situation mirrors the Sixers', only they have some winning seasons to show for it. Five players comprise the vast majority of the Spurs' cap space. They're lucky, in that they'll most likely have no RFAs that are too good to let walk, and they'll get discount team options on Dejaun Blair and George Hill, who at that point in their careers, will be playing for much lower than market value. I don't understand the Jefferson situation. He was smart to re-sign, even though he lost $6 million in 2010-11 when he could have just picked up the player option, but he got some long-term security. I just don't know why the Spurs gave it to him. He's not really that good anymore.
Players we might have a shot at: Myeh.
Cap outlook: Again, five players=most of the Jazz's cap. And two of them play the same position. Those who know me, know where I'm going with this...
Players we might have a shot at: Paul Milsap should be feeling like the odd man out already. If Utah decides he's expendable, and God, I hope they do, he could be available for cap relief and maybe a second rounder (or, worse case scenario, a highly-protected first). Foster and the pick, or Sol Jones, Dahntay Jones and Brandon Rush and the pick would work financially. Milsap, to me, is one of the best values in the league at $6.2 mil a season, and those are the types of contracts we should be going after, considering the CBA and what may change with max deals.
Cap outlook: They're actually not in bad shape. Without Gil Arenas's contract, the Wizards look like a young, rebuilding team with loads of potential (and a refreshing lack of locker room gunplay). It's a blemish on their payroll that they might do anything to erase. But they know that Gil has to behave himself and actually play a full season without getting seriously hurt before anyone will touch the remaining three years and $60+ million on his deal.
Players we might have a shot at: It's only Arenas, and I don't want him at that pricetag (though I did hope he'd get bought out and sign for cheap). But if the Wizards were really desperate to get rid of him at the deadline for some reason, and were willing to offer him, Andray Blatche and Nick Young for Murphy, Dunleavy and Rush (or Dahntay Jones) I'd have to consider it, if it were up to me. Especially if he had just played a half-a-season at his old level. While I'm not sure why the Wizards traded for him, I doubt Hinrich gets put back on the trade block.
Sorry for the length. Any I missed? Any you agree or disagree with? Comment away.
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Players who stand out to me..
I kinda like Anderson Varejao. His 5 year deal kind of scares me at 7.4 mil per year.. but that’s honestly not that bad value-wise. He’s an energy guy, similar to Joakim Noah.. but also similar to Hansbrough.. worth noting at least.
Paul Millsap.. self-explanatory.
And Andray Blatche.. young talent.
Thanks for breakin this down. I started to early and then my head started hurting.
I agree with you that Orlando will be sellers at some point. That’s just way to much money to be spending ant not have a lineup that looks like LA or Miami.
My favorite trading partner would be New Orleans. I would love to get West and Posey and wouldn’t mind getting Okafor but he simply makes too much money.
One team you left out is Portland which you wouldn’t think of as sellers right now but I could see wanting a guy like Murphy by the trading deadline for their playoff push.
And I think you can always considering stealing players from Kahn in Minnesota. Where was Bird during the Al Jefferson deal? We couldn’t put together a better deal than Utah? I still wouldn’t mind us seeing going after Flynn though.
If Youre not First, Youre Last
by drsuessrunner07 on Jul 30, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
Neither of those teams are in financial trouble for 2011-12. I didn’t even consider that teams might actually want Murphy for a playoff run, so that adds a whole new element. As for Minnesota, to me there’s really nothing left there that I’d want now that Jefferson and Sessions are gone (I’m not a Flynn fan).
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Corey Brewer
is a future all star. Hopefully Kahn is stupid enough to trade him.
He's really improved his jumper and range over the last year
And he’s a defensive beast. If he could play the 2 regularly that’d solve one of our problems. The trouble is they don’t have any reason to trade young assets because they’ll have less than $25 mil committed for next year (as of this minute). But with Wes Johnson and Martell Webster, Kahn may not feel so inclined to match a qualifier for Brewer. If you like him, and I do, you should wish for him to kind of get buried on the bench this year and for the Pacers to be smart enough to make a little bit of a higher offer for him than any other team, then just hope Kahn doesn’t match.
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I can dream
I think they should consider giving him up for something if they’re not going to use him correctly. They could at least save money by trading him.
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Jazz trade
Goodness gracious, will Pacer fans ever stop thinking the Jazz are going to give up Millsap for practically nothing?
Personnel wise the Jazz are not established well in the frontcourt. They’ve got Jefferson (major injury history), Millsap, Okur (recovering from a severe achilles injury suffered in the playoffs) and that’s about it. Fesenko will probaly come back, but he’s nothing more than minutes filler. Kirilenko can play the 4, but with his body type it’s not something he should be doing on a regular basis. So, no, the Jazz don’t have a crowded frontcourt, in fact, their frontcourt could be one of their biggest question marks.
On top of the personnel issues, the Jazz organization and fans love Millsap. There’s a deep emotional connection there. Hell, they went into the luxury tax for the first time ever as a franchise so they could match the Blazers “toxic” offer last offseason. They’ve (fans) been crying for him to take Boozer’s job for two years now. They won’t give him up for peanuts.
I thought it was a logical suggestion
And I explained it clearly. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But on paper, he looks redundant now, more than ever, and too expensive as a backup given how the rest of their salary is wrapped up. Obviously you’re a Utah Jazz expert, but I don’t think it sounds too unreasonable from an outsider’s perspective.
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I appreciate the research, I really do, but I don’t think you have to be Jazz expert to know an expiring contract + 2nd rounder isn’t going to be enough to net Paul Millsap.
The Clippers got Marcus Camby for the right to swap second round picks with Denver
Because the Nuggets were desperate to shave cap and LA could absorb his remaining years. Camby’s an all-world defender and former All-Star. Milsap’s not. Granted, that was the most one-sided trade ever, but stranger things have happened than Utah taking back a pick and cap relief for their second-string PF.
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Last rebuttal
Remember, though, before Denver dealt Camby there had been many rumors suggesting they were looking to cut payroll. Does that mean we should have expected Denver to give Camby away for nothing? No. I was certainly still shocked by it, but at the very least we knew the Nuggets were looking to cut payroll, so the trade, in hindsight, makes a little bit more sense.
The Jazz, on the other hand, haven’t said or done anything to suggest they’re similarly looking to cut payroll. Factor in also they need as much frontcourt depth as they can get right now, they love Millsap, they have him for relatively cheap, and I can’t see why someone thinks he’d be available for so little. Again, I appreciate the info. I agree with most of what you write, but I’ve seen a few Pacer fans recently suggest the Pacers should go after Millsap for practically nothing and the reasoning behind why the Jazz would do it is a bit underwhelming.
Oh…and lastly, I suppose the next time someone proposes a trade idea you think is ridiculous all they have to do to satisfy you is cite the Camby trade and say “stranger things have happened”? Come on now…
Definitely wishful thinking
But a couple things. First, I don’t understand your frontcourt depth argument. Saying Utah’s frontcourt is a question mark is completely off-base. If that’s a question mark, it’s one I’d love to have. They may be thin at center, but Milsap and Jefferson can’t play center. They’re both PF-onlys. We saw what happened to Jefferson when he played out of position in Minny, and Milsap’s undersized even for a PF. Having a borderline All-Star as your second-string PF is, by every measure, a luxury.
Also, just because Utah hasn’t talked about wanting to save money for 2010-11, it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be trying. I wasn’t copping out when I said “stranger things have happened.” It’s not like I’m saying Utah only has a few million committed and they should try to save cap space anyway. They very much need to shave dollars, as they have $50 million committed to five players for 11-12 at the moment, and will be looking to max-out Deron Williams in the summer of 2012 (IF max salaries then are more than his current $17 million player option…unknown as of now).
In any event, yes, of course this is wishful thinking. But from a GM’s perspective, it’s not unheard of, and again, it’s not that unfair. Trading Jeff Foster and a protected first, or a second rounder, would make sense financially, and I believe this Utah team is devoid of first round picks for next draft anyway, so they might be in the market for one. If Milsap was, or became, a valuable rotation member in the meantime, it’d be a stupid basketball move. But here’s hoping his minutes decrease and they realize what a wasted commodity they have on their hands, and wish they could use it to gain more cap flexibility.
Wouldn’t be the first time.
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Just because...
you think Jefferson is a PF-only doesn’t mean that’s what he’ll play. With Fesenko still unsigned and Okur an unknown with his playoff injury, Jefferson will be playing a lot of C in Utah, especially in the early months. If Fesenko re-signs and Okur recovers quickly, then okay, maybe their frontcourt situation becomes a bit more settled. But at this point those are “ifs” hence the frontcourt question marks. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that. The Jazz basically have only two reliable big bodies on the roster right now (Jefferson, Milsap), the others are, again, question marks. How’s that really debatable at this point? And that’s without even taking into account Jefferson’s own sketchy injury history. Milsap is going to start and play a lot of minutes this season and he’s going to produce. The Jazz won’t be looking to sell him off for scraps. To think otherwise is like you said “wishful thinking” which is a common fan element when proposing trades, and the reason why I can’t take it seriously.
You're condescending, but it's unconvincing because you're still wrong
Okur’s on track to start the regular season.
Al Jefferson is a Power Forward. His PER (if you care about that…I personally don’t, but it means more than winning pct. for a 15-win team) was higher as a PF.
Or, if you don’t believe me, check out this article. It’s pretty well-written, though it’s a year old. It does give you some perspective into the last time Al played PF full-time.
I think it’s misleading to call Al Jefferson’s injury history “sketchy.” Besides the 32 consecutive games he missed with an ACL injury two years ago, he’s missed exactly 6 games over the last three years.
Andrei Kirilenko spent 5% of his floor time at PF last year. That’s not much, but in that 5%, he and his team was much better. His team had a higher win percentage. He had better stats. The only thing that was worse was his opponent’s PER, which wasn’t really significantly worse than it was during the time he spent at SF.
Again, it all goes back to salary cap questions, which you continually ignore, and I think you’re deliberately minimizing to make your argument seem stronger.
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Ha
You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I agree Jefferson’s more natural position is PF, but with the Jazz so thin at C, he’s going to have to play the position. And I know Okur is “on track” but being on track doesn’t even begin to say “he’ll be the same player he was before the injury.” Especially after suffering a severe achiles injury at 31 years of age. You’re making the assumption he will be perfectly healthy because it makes you feel better about Milsap being potentially available.
I ignore the salary cap question because it’s silly. Just because the numbers match doesn’t mean the deal is realistic. You think Milsap could very well be available because he plays the same position as Jefferson. Even though Jefferson is likely to play a lot of C for the Jazz considering their question marks there, and his ability to play both positions (PF, C). You think Milsap could very well be available because the Jazz could be looking to shed salary. Even though the Jazz have done nothing to indicate they’re even thinking of shedding salary. In fact, they’ve gone the opposite direction. To get Jefferson they put themsleves in a position to pay the luxury tax for a second straight season. They’re looking to compete not play the cap game. Will that change in a few years? Maybe. But that mindset is not changing right now.
Lastly, you don’t have a clue as to the connection the fans and organization have with Milsap. In one word I’d call it It obsessive. They love their Milsap. Of course that’s not something you’d know unless you live in or are familiar with Salt Lake City, and I travel there quite I often so I feel like I understand that perspective a little more.
There are simply too many factors that make the “matching salaries” argument look bad, I’m sorry. What you should do is present this trade offer to a Jazz blog and see how they react. You might understand my viewpoint a little better. I’m guessing it won’t be pretty.
And...
Especially after suffering a severe achiles injury at 31 years of age. You’re making the assumption he will be perfectly healthy because it makes you feel better about Milsap being potentially available.
I didn’t make any assumptions. I posted a source in a link. Anyone who suffers an achilles injury of that magnitude, no matter their age, has a very limited chance of ever being the same player. No one ever assumed otherwise. But facts are facts, and the fact is they’re paying Okur $20 million over the next two years, barring some clause in the new CBA that distinguishes guaranteed and non-guaranteed money and lets you void contracts whenever you want NFL style (ain’t happening). Another fact: With that age, injury and contract, they’ll never be able to trade him (at least not until February of 2012). Another fact: He’s recovering fine. And It doesn’t just happen to be convenient for my argument, it happens to be a fact. Again, sited source.
I ignore the salary cap question because it’s silly. Just because the numbers match doesn’t mean the deal is realistic.
No, you’re ignoring it because you’re being obstinant. I’ve offered plenty of good reasons why a franchise would shed salary, and plenty of examples where franchises have. It has very little to do with matching salaries, and everything to do with future flexibility, which has proven very important to teams with the uncertainty of the cap situation.
To get Jefferson they put themsleves in a position to pay the luxury tax for a second straight season. They’re looking to compete not play the cap game.
Not necessarily. If the luxury tax situation continues on this trend, even with the new CBA, they’ll be in serious financial trouble without making a move, and I’ve already pointed out how they won’t likely be able to move Okur. If Okur’s healthy enough to start, even at 75% effectiveness for 75% of the games, what about Milsap makes them more competitive than using cap flexibility to address their other needs (scoring wing presence, backup PG)?
Lastly, you don’t have a clue as to the connection the fans and organization have with Milsap. In one word I’d call it It obsessive.
What you should do is present this trade offer to a Jazz blog and see how they react. You might understand my viewpoint a little better. I’m guessing it won’t be pretty.
Great. Except the last time I checked, fanbases don’t make business decisions for sports franchises, especially not in cities where the fanbases are as strong and loyal (and captive) as the one in Utah. Pistons fans weren’t too keen on trading Chauncey Billups for washed-up AI. Even some informed Colts fans threw a fit when they let Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison walk.
At the end of the day, nothing you’ve said makes me think that trading Milsap wouldn’t be at least a feasible enough business move for both sides to consider. And I maintain that it’s still a wash as a basketball move (if they like the idea of developing a young player with our pick) unless he finds a way into the regular starting rotation. But I guess I’d know more if I traveled to Utah more often…
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Oh brother
“I’ve offered plenty of good reasons why a franchise would shed salary, and plenty of examples where franchises have. It has very little to do with matching salaries, and everything to do with future flexibility, which has proven very important to teams with the uncertainty of the cap situation.”
You offered plenty of reasons why generally a team might look to shed salary, but your reasons as to why the Jazz would do it are mostly based on “wishful thinking” as you put it. Wishful thinking doesn’t usually equal a “feasible business move” or a realistic trade scenario. It usually equals “I want my team to screw another team and here’s how they can do it….”
“Not necessarily. If the luxury tax situation continues on this trend, even with the new CBA, they’ll be in serious financial trouble without making a move, and I’ve already pointed out how they won’t likely be able to move Okur…”
They don’t necessarily have to make a move. Kirilenko’s 17 mil comes off the books after this season, and they have a Team Option for CJ Miles’ 3.75 mil contract. Those contracts alone could help provide some relief. But you’re right, the future for every team is questionable at this point, that’s why I said in a few years it’s possible the Jazz could be looking to shed salary. But this deal your proposing is about the here and now, and the here and now gives me nor anyone else reason to believe the Jazz are looking to give double-double players away for nothing. In fact, they’re taking double-double players for nothing.
“Great. Except the last time I checked, fanbases don’t make business decisions for sports franchises, especially not in cities where the fanbases are as strong and loyal (and captive) as the one in Utah…”
Okay. Propose it to another fan base then. Or try to propose it to NBA GMs, I don’t care. The point is I’d be highly surprised if anyone other than yourself and some other Pacer fans will tell you this would be a “feasible business move” for the Jazz.. And we know your fellow Pacer fans will be highly prone to bias.
“And I maintain that it’s still a wash as a basketball move (if they like the idea of developing a young player with our pick)…”
A washed up Jeff Foster and an unknown 2nd rounder (or highly protected 1st rounder) for a probable double-double machine (Millsap), who the Jazz have at one of the best value deals in the league? That’s a wash as a basketball move? I’m speechless…
“…unless he finds a way into the regular starting rotation…”
Even if he doesn’t start he’s going to get a lot of minutes. Hell, the Jazz have been dealing with your predicted frontcourt logjam the past two seasons, and Millsap still gets 27-30 minutes per game. Factor in Okur’s injury and Jefferson’s ability to play two positions and it’s not unreasonable to think he’ll get even more. You act like he’s not going to get off the bench with Jefferson’s presence, and the past two seasons are ample proof he’ll get plenty of playing time regardless of whether or not they have a more talented player ahead of him.
I can’t convince you this would never happen, and you can’t convince me it would. Aren’t you getting the impression this is becoming a pointless exercise?
Cool
But if they’re looking at a 7-8 seed at the trade deadline and want to save money, I would hope they could visit the possibility of trading Milsap (assuming Okur and Jefferson were both healthy, and not injured for the year).
I’d up the offer to Hansbrough, Rush, Sol Jones and a top-10 protected 1st.
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Hans
Enjoyed the debate.
I’m higher on him than others, but I think Hansbrough could end up being a Millsap-type player, if he ever gets healthy. And much like I was arguing with Okur, that’s a big “if” at this point.
I always thought he had a Milsap or even David West ceiling
We’d just have to hope he either starts showing that before the deadline, or some other team agreed with me enough to give back a Milsap-level player in exchange for a package that included him.
I always enjoy a good internet argument. It’s much better than arguing in a bar when you’re loaded because there’s spell check.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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I'll buy that.
Hanny seemed like a pretty good player before vertigo/concussion.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Aug 3, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it
We could do Murphy and Foster, or Murphy, D. Jones and Rush for Igoudala and Lou Williams. I guess it would depend on how badly the Sixers wanted to cut cost. They’ve got bad contracts up to their eyebrows and young guys they’ll need to long-term over the next couple years, so anything’s possible. I just don’t see us getting back Iggy without either taking Brand too, or adding a first rounder. They floated him out there pre-draft to try to get people to take Brand without requiring the #2 pick, and it didn’t work, so I guess it’s a possibility…
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Great read Luke
Nice job Luke I would really like some of these deals. I believe a lot will depend on the way the season starts for a lot of teams. That is one of the reasons I do not mind jumping on the first offer we get during the off season. If we play our cards right we might be able to work a deal that may be more of a steal for us.
I would be ok with some trades involving...
The Sixers, Clippers, Wizards, Jazz, Hornets, and Warriors. I will say this regarding Tyrus Thomas, he is a pretty good defender and rebounder. If he wasn’t making some stupid amount of money, I feel he would be a good fit next to Hibbert. He is still young, so maybe he lives up to his contract.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jul 30, 2010 1:31 AM EDT reply actions
Sacramento
I’ve been talking about them for a while now, but I would think that with Dalembert, Cousins, Landry, Whiteside, and Thompson they’d be willing to part with one of those bigs. I know we can just wait for Landry to come off the books and try to get him in FA, but I would much rather trade for him and then immediately sign him to an extension. I think Udrih would have to be a part of the package though to make salaries match..
If we did it that way
Udrih/Landry for Dunleavy would work financially, I think. Would they do it? We’d be taking a bad contract for them. I’d be fine with that as long as it didn’t involve a pick.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
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Most of these deals scare me
the Sacramento suggestion is probably the best I’ve seen so far. Most of these deals have us taking on bad contracts with not a whole lot of positive return (read: good players). I’d probably be good with a Clipper trade of Foster/Murph for Kaman/Eric Gordon and the deal with the Kings to bring Landry and Udrih for TJ Ford (fits their system). Bottom line we can’t afford to tie up cap space to fight for the 7th or eighth seed.
P.S- I’m praying we don’t get Rashard, Gilbert or Monta. We have enough guys who are overpaid and don’t play D.
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