Entering Year 3

by captain flitzy on Jul 28, 2010 11:50 AM EDT

RIght now we are officially entering year 3 of Danny's prime. I am not here to offer some crazy trade scenario, or layout how we can get Chris Paul, Dirk, and Al Jefferson for TJ Ford and Dunleavy. I'm just throwing it out there that peoples primes dont last very long, and 3 years in Danny has not had any shred of help. We got an absolute STEAL with Danny in the draft, and it will be a shame if we don't surround him with anyone to help us compete.

The best parallel I can think of right now is Pierce. For years and years and yearssss, Pierce had no help. Boston was an absolute joke, while everyone knew Pierce was legit. He had Antoine Walker who was a stat guy (Murphy) but not REAL help, and look where it got them. Pierce played for 10 years before the stroke of God gave them a legitimate team. Danny is heading down that same path now, and it is tough to watch. With Indiana not being half the market Boston is, it is hard to imagine that same type of circumstance occurring where Danny gets immediate Hall of Fame type help. Before 2008, Pierce was known as a good player, but now a great player. It is going to be insanely tough watching Danny struggle on 3035 win teams for another 5 years. Lets get this man some help!

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I dont think its easy for a small market team

Bird is doing a good job with what he has had to work with the last few years. he is just about to get some money and he actually has a few players that have talent now so im all for seeing what he can do with these guys in the next year or so. This year is a make it or break it time for the frnachise and Bird

by supercolts on Jul 28, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions

Good call on the Granger to Pierce comparison...

Now let’s hope we can draft a franchise PG (like Rondo) and gas too bad GMs into accepting our lowball offers for their veteran stars! It’s as easy as 1-2-3

"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

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by LukeNukem on Jul 28, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions

*two bad

And it’s debatable whether or not there are even two GMs in the league worse than Bird. There’s definitely one (Kahn) and he already traded all of his good players to other teams.

"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.

by LukeNukem on Jul 28, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

At least Kahn can make a trade while be batshit crazy. Larry seems stubborn, which I think is a worst characteristic than crazy. I’m also sure that with the situation that Larry is in, other teams knows he is desperate are just trying to dump their bloated contracts for our expiring contracts. Best to just let them expire.

I’m still giving Larry till the start of next year before making judgments.

I’m sure they’ll consider offers for Granger if Paul and Lance turn into stars.

by Sparhawk on Jul 28, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Umm..

I do believe Kahn traded, perhaps, his best player for nothing, quite literally nothing. Wouldn’t it be better to keep them if they become stars? Seems like that would give a nice 3-headed attack and with a new coach, it’s possible that the starting lineup would be a really good defensive team too. It is my inherent belief that defense wins championships. Oh yeah, the problem with Kahn is, when we tried to trade with him, suddenly he wanted the best player and would refuse to listen to anything else.

by infinityzero.systemerror on Jul 28, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

He got 2 first rounders and a huge trade exception

Has Larry gotten anything close to that in any trades?

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Jul 30, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Is Granger really a #1 option for a title contender?

Paul Pierce, yes. Danny Granger, no. If he were I’d understand him expecting the Pacers to put better pieces around him. But it’s not like Granger is a super elite player that should be expecting championships as the focal point. If he were, more players would be interested in coming to Indiana. I put him more in the Michael Redd, Caron Butler, Iguadola realm. Those guys are good #2 options, but they won’t ever lead a team to a championship.

Now, all that being said the Pacers obviously need better players, but any rush to put players around Granger for the sake of his career is a little silly at this point. The Pacers need to get a player BETTER than Granger, not guys to compliment him. Who knows, George or Stephenson very well may end up being that guy, but DG will have to be willing to recognize if and when a younger player coming through has the potential be a championship caliber leader. Sometimes a “best player on a team” like Kevin Martin or Michael Redd get hurt which then allows younger, better players take over as leaders that might not otherwise have happened. I hope it doesn’t have to happen that way with Granger.. but if the Pacers build through the draft to get to contender status this would have to happen.

As for the Pacers making moves to placate DG, he ain’t at that level…

by BenD on Jul 28, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions

I'm not sure Paul Pierce was ever a #1 option for a title contender

Pierce’s Celtics’ record before KG and Ray Allen (and Rondo’s year two explosion)=.434

Granger’s Pacers’ record so far=.439

And Pierce played 9 seasons before his front office surrounded him with Hall of Famers. I don’t think Granger lasts that long, health-wise, but the Pierce comparison is most certainly accurate. They’re a different type of player, yes, and it can be argued that Pierce has more killer instinct. But give Danny four more years in the league and a few more trips to the post season and he’ll be there mentally. If you watched the Celtics last season (and at times the two years before), you know that during their “contender” period Pierce was hardly ever their first option.

To win a championship in this day and age, unfortunately, you have to have three big stars. The sad part is we’ll have money the year they restructure the CBA and we won’t be able to obtain two more big money guys, even if they want to play for us.

"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.

by LukeNukem on Jul 28, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Paul Pierce

Is 100% the closer of that team, and was when they won their championship. I think Paul Pierce is far and away a better basketball player than DG. He has a complete offensive game and plays much better defense. That Celtics team after Antoine left was EPICALLY bad (Wally Szczerbiak as their second best player). And if I remember, Pierce was the leader of two teams that made it to the Eastern Semis and Finals while 2 years younger than Danny. And don’t discredit “killer instinct” as a factor in who is a better player. That’s the difference between T-Mac and Kobe.

But who cares, we’ll never agree on that. However, the notion that Danny is some elite player that should warrant pity because he’s stuck with a crappy team is unfounded. The holes in his game are very apparent, he is a very good player, not great. Put him on teams like the Bulls, Magic, Thunder, Blazers, Hawks, and he’s a third wheel. The Pacers need to get better for sake of the entire team and to keep this franchise in the city of Indianapolis, not Danny Granger.

by BenD on Jul 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Far and away a better player...

They’re actually really similar, numbers match up really well. Also, if you go by defensive rating Danny was actually better and he played out of position a fair deal of the time. I don’t think Pierce had to go play PF at any time. T-Mac has never been able to remain healthy, not once did he make it through a whole season. Kobe is a workout warrior too, he tries to get better. I’m not so sure McGrady has/had that same kind of fire. Although, T-Mac got a bad rap, he actually played really, really well in the playoffs. I would have to say you undervalue just how good Danny is because of some of the franchise players that around now, may very well be amongst the greatest in the history of the NBA. Danny is a top 10 player in the NBA, which is pretty good considering there’s 30 teams in the NBA, looking at it that way we at least have a worthy 1# option.

by infinityzero.systemerror on Jul 28, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

point being

we’ll never find out and it’ll never matter if we don’t put together a worthy team.

by Justin Arnold on Jul 28, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

We’re closer than we were, that’s better than nothing.

by infinityzero.systemerror on Jul 28, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Top 10 Player??

You are in complete denial, dude. You’re telling me that a guy with hardly any mid-range game, no post game, bad ball-handling, average man defense, is a top 10 player?? Top 10 players make their teammates better, something Danny can’t do yet. DG can get hot with the best of them when his 3 point shot is falling, but c’mon man, he was given the green light to bomb away on this Pacers team which completely inflates his numbers. And it’s not like he did it efficiently either. Very good players often have these kinds of years on crappy teams:

Jason Richardson, 23 PPG in 2006 with GSW
Kevin Martin, 24 PPG in 2007 with SAC
Richard Jefferson, 23 PPG in 2007 with NJN
Corey Magette, 23 PPG in 2007 with LAC
Monta Ellis, 25 PPG in 2009 with GSW

I love Danny, but this notion that he is an elite player is absurd. Put him on a legit team with a real offense that doesn’t involve shooting SEVEN 3s A GAME (as he did the past two years) and he is getting 17ppg as a complimentary player. If and when the Pacers contend again, this is what we should be expecting from DG.

by BenD on Jul 29, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I agree

He would be a great Robin as a scorer, but he will never be a Batman.

by kennythered on Jul 29, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Pierce

Is 6’6" compared to 6’8" Danny, and had three 25PPG seasons before he was Danny’s age, and in those seasons leading an average Boston team deep into the playoffs.

by BenD on Jul 29, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

But..

Danny was on legit teams his first few years in the league. The fact that they are 2 inches apart doesnt matter, they play the same position and put up very similar stats across the board. While I do think PIerce is a better player, Danny is in a similar situation.

by captain flitzy on Jul 29, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I was referring why PP would never have played "out of position" with the height..

by BenD on Jul 29, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

The second paragraph

Is spot on. There’s not one player in the history of basketball, including Reggie, I feel pity for because of his situation. Want your situation to improve? Get better.

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ The sky is falling!

by IndyPacers on Jul 29, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions