Top 5 Trades for a PG That Actually Work
The Pacers need a PG like Chris Andersen needs another tattoo. Except the opposite. Like most of you, I'm addicted to the Trade Machine, but unlike some of you, I'm realistic and smart. Here's a list of 5 trades for a PG that would improve the Pacers and work under the cap. Each of these presume that we release a player and sign one of the unrestricted free agent PGs like Shaun Livingston, Jordan Farmar, Kyle Lowry or Steve Blake for something under the midlevel exception. Or that Lance Stephenson morphs into a legit PG.
1. Monta Ellis for Troy Murphy and Brandon Rush. Monta is a pure scorer that played the point a lot before Stephen Curry showed up. He's signed long term, but he puts up 30-5-5 nights with 2-3 steals a game. He has serious star potential and can be the badass to complement Danny's mild mannered approach.
2. Gilbert Arenas for Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster and Brandon Rush. Gilbert might take a poop in your shoes or pull a gun on you, but we're used to that in Indy. Just keep him away from the strip clubs. And nobody let Lance Stephenson play poker with him. That wouldn't end well. He scores tons of points, gets assists, can lead a team and will get us wins. Maybe now he's inclined to be a good citizen after being suspended for a season. If Ronny can change, so can Gil. Is there really anyone we could get with cap space next year that's better than Agent 0? Ish don't think so.
3. Jose Calderon for Jeff Foster, Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough. Jose Calderon might not like going from a sophisticated international city to the land of Steak and Shakes and corn fields, but the Pacers could sure use his assists and leadership. He's reasonably priced and we'd still have the expiring contracts of Dunleavy, Murphy and Ford to bolster the frontline.
4. Raymond Felton for Jeff Foster. The Trade Machine doesn't do sign and trades, but Foster makes $6M this year, so if the Pacers gave Felton a 3 year, $18-20M contract they'd get a legit starting PG and retain flexibility. Not as flashy as the first two ideas, but it might get the job done.
5. Mike Conley for Jeff Foster. Conley back in Indiana would be super sweet. Right up until he loses his starting job to Steve Blake or (gasp) TJ Ford. I haven't seen much of Conley since he's been struggling with the Grizzlies, but the Pacers should be willing to give him a shot just for his remaining potential and fan interest. The Grizz don't want him, but we should.
That's all I've got. I'm not buying into the Maynor/Collison/Lawson ideas because we don't have the young assets to lure a team to give us a cheap PG with potential. We've got to take on a guy with a few years left on his contract from a team that's ready to let him go. And if you're wondering about big men...anybody interested in signing Jermaine O'Neal or Al Harrington for cheap?
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Agreed
I doubt Golden state takes murph back especially for ellis. I would probably like to see gilbert in Indy more than most people as long as he can keep his head on straight, he can still play and he’d put butts in the seats. However, I really dont see Larry taking a risk like. Realistically I’d like to see Felton come to Indy I think he’d be a good fit and a guy who we could get to come here for a realistic amount of money or other players via trade.
I think if the Pacers make a trade, they would wan to do a 2-1 kinda deal. If they do sign all 3 draft picks they have no more roster spots. I know the Pacers are kinda high on Marcus Williams of the D-League as well…and he can play some PG.
I honestly wouldn’t mind Agent 0, but I think a player like him will hinder the development of Hibbert, Hansborough, George and Stevenson.
I think getting a young PG to go along with our young guys would be ideal. I really think Ramon Sessions might be the best gamble if Kahn can get his head out of his ass. Rush + Filler might be enough. Go ahead and add a 2nd round pick too since Kahn loves collecting draft picks.
I wanted the Pacers to find a way to get sessions last year I think he has all sorts of potential.I also hear Indy might make a run at Farmar if the lakers don’t resign him,I wouldn’t mind if the Pacers gave him a shot at the starting point guard.
Loved Sessions in 08-09 year too
The assists numbers as a starter were freakish. I watched him play against us the last home game of the season that year. Dude has got to be one of the best dribble-penetrators in the league.
Doesn’t play much defense, though. But Neither does Ford and he makes twice as much.
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My take
1. GS probably wouldn’t do it. I’d love it. acquiring a star like Ellis is the type of move the Pacers need to make to become legit. Your deal works out fine, but the Pacers would have to throw in a draft pick, I bet, and probably wait until the deadline to do it so the Warriors will know they’re not making the playoffs and Murphy’s expiring contract with 30-some-odd games left on it becomes so much more valuable. Still doubt they’d bite, but you never know.
2. I only want Arenas if the Wizards were to somehow buy him out and the Pacers could sign him for the mid-level or lower. You said you used Trade Machine, so surely you know how bad his contract is? I mean, the $17.7 he’s going to make this year is nothing. He makes $19m/$21/$22 over the following three seasons, and will be 31, still injury-prone, and still crazy when his deal’s done. Trading for him with that contract is the move that could send this franchise off to Kansas City or some other town. No thanks.
3. I don’t mind Jose Calderon, but did you know he makes the around the same money as Steve Nash, and just slightly less than Chauncey Billups? He’s grossly overpaid for his production. He basically had that one year where he stole T.J. Ford’s job, and he’s been injury-prone and underwhelming since. Also, he turns 29 this fall. I’d stay away from him unless the Raptors were willing to send back Derozan. Murphy for the two of them works and gives the Raptors a taker for Calderon’s horrid deal. But I doubt they part with Derozan, even if they are cleaning shop this year and trying to land a free agent next season. The Raptors are kind of in the same situation the Pacers are in, now that Bosh is leaving; no one wants to play there, they didn’t have any lottery luck and they don’t have many assets to acquire studs. So getting Murphy, who’s basically an Andrea Bargnani clone, doesn’t make sense.
4. I like Felton. Always have. I think he’s worth the money you suggest. I don’t think Foster can pass any physicals, which will make trading him difficult. But if it’s expriings they want, we’ve got boatloads of ’em.
5. I like Conley too. And Memphis can absorb Foster. But as I’ve said to a few people on this site, I think they’ve got something planned for their cap space, or otherwise, why would they have sold a draft pick? I don’t know what their plan is, but I doubt it involves taking on our shitty players for their good ones. I think once Memphis loses Gay for sure, Rush and a future heavily-protected first rounder might be enough to pry away Conley.
I disagree with your “young assets” assumption. Not all of those teams are looking for more young assets. NO is probably looking for someone to just take their crap (Posey or Okafor). Denver’s not looking to trade Lawson at all, I think that was just a big rumor. OKC is looking to clear future cap space for the massive extensions they’re going to have to sign next season. That said, I think Collison and Maynor are still on the table, but getting either would require draft picks, and they may not be worth it yet (maybe at the deadline, maybe not).
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I hear you...
But what do you think we’re gonna do with all that cap space in 2011? Sign somebody to a big contract, right? Arenas looks better considering that.
I think you’re sleeping on Calderon, but it’s true, he is an injury risk.
Felton might be the best option, but he’s not a star and won’t ever be.
Collison and Maynor aren’t proven enough to take back bad contracts. But if they get either, I’d be happy.
I like some of the ideas...
but there is no way in hell Golden State does that deal. The problem Indiana, and it is going to be a big one, is what to do once the contracts come off the books. Off the top of my head I can’t think of the last even-slightly-above-average Free Agent signed with us, someone might be slipping my mind, but I really can’t think of one. Larry is going to have to be SUPER smart in what he does with these expiring contracts. I would prefer to trade for already existing guys, than go into Free Agency with a ton of cap space, high hopes, and not much in return.
If Larry cannot swing things highly in our favor at the end of this year with DunMurph coming off the books, he’s gotta go. O’Brien should be gone 2 years ago.
by captain flitzy on Jun 30, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everyone agrees that no great free agents are going to sign with us next summer
But there’s no situation where Arenas would look good.
The only way the Pacers improve is with good drafting, good luck (like another JO stud-from-nothing type situation), good coaching (whenever JOB leaves) and Bird trading these expiring deals for SOMEone…anyone…who can contribute and has potential. Collison and Maynor have plenty of that, so I’d focus on them first.
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* no situation he'd look good
with his current, historically bad contract. If they bought him out (which now seems out of the question) it’s a different scenario all together.
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I don't like Calderon
I hate the idea of bringing the mental, injury-prone Gilbert Arenas. He’s like a smaller Ron Artest, speaking in terms of mentality (perhaps thats a bit much). I think Ellis would be crushed by JOB because he would think "Why isn’t he jacking up more threes!?! cough Dahntay Jones Cough And, then bench him despite him offering more to the team than other players. I’d be willing to take the others, although I’m not as crazy about them as others would be.
by infinityzero.systemerror on Jul 1, 2010 1:28 AM EDT reply actions
I really doubt Charlotte facilitates a sign and trade for Felton
They gave Tyrus Thomas a ~$6.5mm qualifying offer that puts them too close to the luxury tax to take on the money Felton would sign for. Jordan’s said they aren’t paying the tax.
I am likely to overreact tonight. If I seem crazy, well, it's only temporary.
Conley
I haven’t figured out why everyone thinks this guy is struggling? He’s almost exactly the same age as Collison, is a near 40% 3pt shooter, has much less turnovers than collison, more steals, about the same pts per game and a much better assist to turnover ratio. Yeah, he’s played in the league more, but he’s only 22. This guy is a year younger the Ekpe Udoh (so glad he was off the board. We didn’t need a 23 yr old rookie with limited upside), who most of you seemed to want to draft. If we could get him for fairly cheap, then bring him home, he’s still got a chance to be a really good pg.
I don't really get it either
For some reason people seem to think Memphis wants to dump him and I’ve never seen anything to suggest it. He’s 2 months younger than Collison, 2 older than Lawson. Scoring’s gone up every year, along with FG%, assists, and a/to. He turned it over just over twice a game in 32 minutes a game last year, as a 22 year old. That’s very good. I don’t think he’ll ever be truly elite, but I’ve seen people (not here) call him a bust. That’s not true at all.
If we could somehow get him I’d be over the moon happy.
I am likely to overreact tonight. If I seem crazy, well, it's only temporary.
How about Patty Mills
The super speedy Aussie that torched team USA in the Olympics. Can’t seem to get off the bench in Portland. I think he’s a FA, you would think we’d be able to afford him.
I am likely to overreact tonight. If I seem crazy, well, it's only temporary.
Patty has been lighting it up
In the Australia-Argentina series here in Aus. He hit 9 threes in one game, and im sure that aspect of his game appeals to JOB
If the Pacers go after Farmer, would they do a sign and trade? They only have 3 spots open, so if they just sign Farmer, then one of the draft picks isn’t going to sign. Larry paid some cash to move up and take Magnum Rolle, so hopefully they don’t just pay money to let him walk. I’m sure Stevenson and George will make the team.
Unless they cut AJ Price (I hope not), the Pacers need to swing some kind of trade for a PG.
I don't think Rolle's going to make it
Remember James White? Clearly they’ll cut a guy they paid for. Not my money and it doesn’t effect the cap so it doesn’t matter to me.
I do think they’re looking for a quantity for quality trade though where they send out more guys than they bring in.
I am likely to overreact tonight. If I seem crazy, well, it's only temporary.
I don't understand
Why we’re not more open with the idea of cutting McRoberts. You absolutely have to keep Price, considering what he showed last year and the need, you have to assume they’ll keep Rolle, since they traded MONEY to get him, you can’t assume they’ll cut Solomon Jones because they’d owe him $1.5 million. Unless Foster gets a buyout (unlikely) why would they keep a guy who plays the same position as Rolle, Foster and Jones (McRoberts is a tweener PF/C) but has a non-guaranteed contract? It’s not like he’s the second-coming of Antonio Davis or something. He’s a nice player. He hustles. He can hit an open 15-20 footer. But aren’t those guys pretty much a dime a dozen? I don’t understand all the worry about the roster being filled. Obviously Bird will (or should) do everything (short of getting hosed on a trade just to free a roster spot) in order to make sure the PG situation is addressed. Cutting Price would be counterproductive to that aim. Cutting McRoberts is the cheapest way to do it.
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I’m thinking Price might become a casualty of injuries and too many people on the roster. I believethis is his second serious knee injury, and with only 3 spots open on the team he may be let go. We really need a pg, the Pacers seem high on all three draft picks, and I think Marcus Williams has a legitimate shot of making the team if he plays well during the summer league. I’m assuming they’re going to give him a lot of time at pg to see how he does.
I really liked Price last year and I’m hoping to see him in a Pacers uniform again, but I’m not overly optimistic. I’d definitely understand if he was cut…
Why not tony parker?
I don’t understand why anyone is ruling tony parker out. George hill looks to be their guy now since he was STARTING in the playoffs over parker. The spurs are getting older and they know that, so why not offer them this trade:
Troy murphy, Aj price, and brandon rush for parker.
Parkers contract expires and so does everyone elses on this list. Spurs get young assets in brandon and aj and can look for another free agent in 2011, maybe another young guy. If we had to, i’d offer a draft pick in there as well, maybe even a first rounder just to get this type of point guard. What do you guys think?
You're right...
I should have included Tony Parker, but I was doubtful the Spurs do it cause he’s expiring. Now with Richard Jefferson’s 15M off the books, maybe they think Rush/Price with another expiring is worth it.
Btw, with the Wrath of Kahn investing $33M on Darko and some other guy to play center, anybody think Minny would trade Jefferson and Sessions for a #1, TJ Ford and Dunleavy?
Will they or should they?
They should. That would be really sweet for them. Al’s off the books, and all the cap space they wasted this morning would be back either this year (if they bought those two out) or next year if they just waited, plus they’d get another draft pick, and David Kahn is infatuated with having lots of draft picks.
They won’t. Kahn sincerely believes he’s going to swing some major stud free agent by dangling Al’s horrible contract, at his absolute worst value point. He’s got to be the worst GM in the league, counting Chris Wallace and Larry Bird. If he was smart, he would’ve never mentioned Al as a possible trade chip, focused their offense around him this year, and watched him go for 22/10 again, then trade him at the deadline for space and picks, or traded him next summer for a hot up-and-comer.
What he’s effectively done today, and through the draft, is corner himself into making some spectacular sign-and-trade for someone like David Lee or Rudy Gay (from teams who have no interest in young assets or cap space, by the way) involving Al Jefferson and one or two of the redundantly numerous wing players he’s acquired. At the end of the day, a deal like you mentioned from the Pacers is probably about as good as he’s going to get for Jefferson.
And if the Pacers can get him without giving up a high pick (like a top 15-protected would be fine, then top-10 the year after) or Granger, then, hell I’d do it. Sessions/George/Granger/Jefferson/Hibbert would be a dynamite half-court team. Too bad our “system” calls for running.
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