The Conflict of Cheering For Losses
by SethGrandpa on Feb 28, 2010 10:30 AM EST
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Print[From the FanPosts, SethGrandpa taps into a common issue facing Pacers' fans these days. -TL]
Everytime I check the Pacers score and see that they won, I get disheartened.
It's been like this for the past few years.
The team needs to lose. That sucks. It's a symptom of a broken system the NBA has created and is dragging its fans through.
The Pacers need to lose because they need a high draft pick. They need a player who can be a franchise savior. They need a Derrick Rose, a Kevin Durant, heck, they'd even settle for a Stephen Curry. It's the only way to drag them out of their current hole. But why is this the case?
It boils down to this - Indiana is not a destination franchise. The term destination franchise refers to a place that appeals to the top-tier of free agents - the guys who can either be the best or second best player on a title contending team. These destinations include big markets (New York, Chicago, L.A.), states with huge tax breaks (Florida and Texas), and possibly even places where it never snows (Pheonix). To put it simply, there isn't anything appealing to free agents about a place like Indiana. They won't get media coverage, tax breaks, or consistently warm weather. Because of this truth, the only way Indiana can drastically improve its club is to hit big on a draft pick or swindle a team in a trade (as was the case in the trades that brought back Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller). Considering none of those types of trades have happened under the current regime's watch, that pretty much only leaves the draft.
Over the past few years the Pacers have done the one thing you cannot do as a non-destination franchise - they've barely missed the playoffs. While logically it would seem to be a good thing to at least be mildly competitive, getting stuck in this niche is a franchise killer. By finishing just shy of the playoffs, players do not get valuable postseason experience and the team has what essentially boils down to a zero chance of picking high.
This is where the NBA system is really broken. The lottery used to be set up where every team had an equal chance of landing the top pick. This eliminated any tanking and could potentially reward teams on the cusp, giving them the boost they needed to legitimize their team. Unfortunately, the NBA brass panicked after the Orlando Magic won back to back #1 picks in the lotto - giving them Shaq and Chris Webber (oh wait no, the Magic screwed the pooch and traded the pick.) The NBA swiftly ushered in a weighted system that punishes teams for putting a competitive squad on the floor while rewarding teams that consistently screwed things up. EDIT: The draft actually became weighted before the Magic won back-to-back. However, it became weighted to a more severe degree in reaction to this fluke occurrence.
And that leads me to where I am - cursing every time I see the Pacers notch a W. It's not that I want the team to lose, in fact quite the opposite. I want the team to win, but the only way they have a chance to do so is to lose. Isn't that a horrid problem? The only chance the Pacers have of being successful in the long term is to get a star, a John Wall or Evan Turner. Every win decreases their lottery chances and increases the odds of mediocrity for years and years to come.
My friends make fun of me because I always say I want the Pacers to be the worst team in the league over being the #8 seed and getting throttled in the playoffs. They say I'm a bad fan. I'm not. I'm a great fan with a firm grounding in the reality of the NBA works.
The twisted and broken way it works.
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Clarification/Correction
The weighted lottery system was already in place before the Magic won the lottery twice. They did re-weight it after that to give the worst teams a better chance of winning the lottery, however.
You're right. My bad.
But they were reactionary to the Magic’s double up by further weighting the system.
I see....
that we are of the same mind-set on this SethGranpa. I just want us to be competitive whilst losing.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work.
-Thomas Edison
I agree
The sad thing is that you are absolutley right. I get a little sadder when the Pacers win, knowing it’s more years in mediocricy.
Wins every so often are nice
Just plain losing gets old. When your other option at this point is Hoosiers basketball, I would like to see some wins from time to time. I’m pleased with the clip they’re winning. It keeps us competitive in the lottery, but still gives us some enjoyable wins.
That’s my take anyway. I don’t think the odds matter all that much. Either we get a top three pick, or we don’t. I hope we do, though. I think going 1-3 or 1-4 every few games won’t hurt. But losing 22 games in a row? Man, forget that shit. I am not on board with that.
A top pick is the answer
I 100% agree that the Pacers need to lose as much as possible. The No. 1 pick would be awesome. I think John Wall will be a team changer. Miami has a terrible season and drafted D-Wade. Chicago took D-Rose. Durant has changed the Thunder franchise. Look at what LeBron has done with Cleveland. It sucks to be terrible, but it takes a terrible season and a high draft pick to change it around. Just barley missing the playoffs and having the 14th pick every season, won’t help. My wish would be to have the No. 1 pick and draft Wall, then fire O’Brien and hire Byron Scott. If not, 2010-11 will be the same old thing. 36-46 and No. 14 pick.
In total agreement
Really though, I could stomach a few wins if the young guys and “core pieces” were getting burn. It would be good experience. If we started AJ, D.Jones/Rush, Granger, Hansbro/McBobs, and Hibbert, and they learned to play well together and get a win or two, I would be happy. But with Hibbert coming off the bench, AJ (and McRoberts) seeing no playing time, and three guys the front office has admitted aren’t part of the franchise’s future (Watson, Ford, and Murphy) seeing big minutes, a win is just one less lottery ball….
Don’t get discouraged because you want the Pacers to lose. That’s what a smart pro basketball mind is thinking. It’s not your fault you understand how things work and you want the best for the future. Everyone has to go through tough times to reach the promised land.
Get discouraged cause the Pacers brass wants the team to win while shoveling this crap at us and expecting us to like it. Get discouraged cause the brass wants to win as much as possible while pissing away more chances to get that better draft position. Get discouraged because the team’s (mis)management scares away good players. Get discouraged because we’re not going in the right direction.
We’ve all been brought up to know that losing isn’t the answer. It doesn’t feel natural to go “Alright! We lost again!”. But sputtering along at 9th place in the East year in and year out has been getting the Pacers nowhere. So no, Sethgrandpa, you are not wrong in wanting to lose.
Although it is a team effort, in these days one player can change it all. The ‘face’ sets the standard. I think only the Pistons did it without a franchise player. The Pacers would never be where they were without Reggie Miller. Chicago didn’t do shit except go down in the semis without MJ. The Colts would call LA home if we took Ryan Leaf. So yes, scuttle the freighter, score a good pick and have JOB never resurface as he goes down with the ship.
I feel ya Grandpa
But it’s about sacrificing short-term self-gratification for long-term success(and long-term success is really what all true Pacers fans want).
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