IC Cold Links: Pacers Looking To Small Lineup For Better Starts
by Tom Lewis on Jan 21, 2010 6:25 AM EST
in Indiana Pacers News
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PrintThe Indiana Pacers have used 16 different starting lineups so far this season. 17th time's a charm?
Mike Wells reported after the game that Jim O'Brien wasn't pleased with his team's first half performance and after once again seeing a small lineup have some success in the first half, he might just start the game that way, moving either Roy Hibbert or Troy Murphy to the bench. Now where have I heard that before?
"The big lineup doesn't work," he said. "We're too slow, (that lineup) doesn't run, doesn't move, doesn't get up and down and doesn't defend at a high enough level. We're better when we're small."
I found it strange that after the comeback win over Toronto, that this move didn't happen immediately. Hibbert and Murphy are more productive when they don't play together anyway and after that game, JOB mentioned that the Pacers were 8-3 when using a small lineup for a majority of the game.
Better late than never, I guess.
Plenty of links after the jump.
PACERS: Inside the Game: Magic 109, Pacers 98
Bruno's Inside the Game report has all of the notes, quotes and numbers from the game last night. No surprise to see the Pacers shut out in the Hustle Board categories.
Early hole proves too deep for Pacers
Mike Wells reports on the same ol' story line doing the Pacers in.
The Magic returned home from their 1-3 road trip and beat the Indiana Pacers
Brian Schmitz reports on the Magic returning home ready to play against the Pacers last night.
Orlando Magic 109, Indiana Pacers 98 - Orlando Pinstriped Post
Ben Q Rock has the Orlando perspective covered over at OPP.
Denton: Magic-Pacers Postgame Analysis
John Denton takes a closer look at the Magic savoring their win after struggling of late.
Game #42 Recap: Math Lessons, Fouling, Mike’s "Defense," Guokas & Faux Comebacks
Jared Wade picks over the carnage at 8.9 and finds a suitable silver lining in the strange numbers the Pacers continue to produce.
Record similar, feeling different at midseason
Bruno's lastest CITW assesses how things are different at the halfway point this year despite a similar record to last season.
Pacers Notebook: Magic's Howard gets back at Hibbert, leads win over Pacers
Notebook items include Dwight Howard nullifying any impact Roy Hibbert hoped to have on the game. Also, JOB looking to change up the lineup again and start small, plus some nice off-court news thanks to Earl Watson.
Nets pulling brakes on Harris trade talk?
ESPN's Marc Stein offers up the latest trade information he's heard floating around including Cleveland continuing to mull a deal for either Antawn Jamison or Troy Murphy.
The four factors certainly favored the Magic last night. More on the four factors.
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Let’s see hear, Obie wants a fast moving team in his so called “run and gun” offense. But they have a team of slow pokes with the likes of Murphy, Dunleavy and Hibbert.
I’m not even sure who on the team is considered quick other than perhaps Granger.
Obie needs to look at this team and realize what he really has. A team that is made for a slower tempo half court offense. I’m not sure there is one player that can work to create their own shot. I’d say Granger, but he’s content with firing off 3’s all day. The offense needs a lot of movement and screens to get guys open. I don’t get to watch games, so I don’t know what really goes on. Hibbert is a pretty good player and developing faster than I thought. It’s too bad he has to play for a bonehead for a coach who’s so delusional that he thinks this team can run like the Suns.
Doesn’t really matter, this team is just bad. I do think this team could play better if only Obie wasn’t given an extension that Bird is too proud to realize that was a mistake and fire the guy. However, just like Bird said he wasn’t going to pay Tinsley to go away and eventually he did, hopefully he’ll finally come through and fire Obie.
Barkley was on PTI yesterday and even he’s ashamed of the quality of basketball that’s being played in this league. I’m totally in agreement. The talent is spread so thin and there are so many bad teams.
by Sparhawk on Jan 21, 2010 9:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
agreed, slow it down
we need a low post threat, and that takes a commitment. Hibbert only had 3 shots last nite, part of which is because he only played 18 minutes and another part of which is our offense isnt patient enough to give it to him down low. That being said, Granger and Murph also need they can play with their back to the basket as well. If you want to control the tempo of the game and you cant shoot (which would be us) then you have to control it with a post game. Not that we need to run everything down low but it should at least be a consistent option.
I would go on another JOB rant but the organization has no interest is cutting ties with the coach at the point so I’ll just say an interim coach would be cheap and although it wouldn’t make that much difference in W’s and L’s maybe we could at least keep our deficit in single digits before the first media time out of every game.
If Youre not First, Youre Last
by drsuessrunner07 on Jan 21, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Defense is about EFFORT
When the coach has lost the team (as JOB obviously has), yhey won’t put forth the effort to play “D”. It has gotten to the point with this team that they are only motivated by coming back from one of JON’s mystery benchings or they finally get fed up with being totally embarrased on the court. I AGREE WITH drsuessrunner07, fire JOB and put in an interim coach. If Bullheaded Bird needs to be fired to accomplish this, then so much the better!
by FortWayneKarl on Jan 21, 2010 9:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Just wondering.....
what does Larry see in JOB? In my opinion JOB seems lost at sea. I think Sparhawk sums it up pretty well. Never understood why they are trying to “run,and gun” with the personnel they have. I mean we drafted a 7’2’’ , 280 pound centre to play in an up-tempo offence sigh.
I thought one of the coach’s traits/skills is to assess the personnel he has and draft up a system around their strengths whilst trying to mitigate against their weakness. Obie seems to have a system in mind and that’s what will be run regardless of who is there.
The situation with the Pacers has gotten old and is beginning to wear on my nerves.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work.
-Thomas Edison
Hmmm
Pacers are 7-3 when Murphy hasn’t played this season. JOB – don’t continue to mess with the promising kid’s psyche when it’s obvious Troy is the one that needs to go/sit.
Also, why not give TJ his starting job back. Surround him with Rush/Dunleavy/Granger and really open the floor for Ford to drive or kick it down to Roy. Couldn’t hurt, could it?
Looking for in-depth basketball analysis? Try http://www.basketballfreeforall.com!
isn’t the sign of a good coach someone who can make a system around the players he has? not one who has a set system and refuses to deviate?
At a high level, you would think management would bring in players to suit the coach
If the Pacers made the decision to run and gun 3-4 years ago. Why have we drafted players so ill suited to that style? Rush? Hibbert???? Hansboro?
It slays me how bad some of these GM’s are. Who will be the Billy Beane of the NBA and change how things are done?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Gonna have to disagree with you dbcb
Most coaches are married to a particular system. Like in football you have West Coast guys, Air Coryell guys, Spread guys etc. You don’t hire a West Coast guy to run a spread offense. Or you wouldn’t hire a Tampa 2 guy like Tony Dungy and make him run a Dick LeBeau 3-4 zone blitz scheme that the Steelers run. You hire a guy to run the offense/defense he knows. Same goes with b-ball. Phil Jackson is a triangle guy. D’Antoni and Obie are run-and-gun guys. You don’t hire an up-tempo guy like D’Antoni and make him run a slow offense. I don’t know if you can blame a coach for running his stuff. It’s on management (Bird and Co.) to see if the coach they’re hiring, and his scheme, fit the skills of the players.
Actually
D’Antoni has slowed it down this year. 7 seconds or less has been scrapped for 24 or less. Honestly, check out their pace and what their defense has been holding opponents to like the last month.
Looking for in-depth basketball analysis? Try http://www.basketballfreeforall.com!
Coach and Management...
issues abound with this team. If Larry is so sold on JOB then why not supply him with athletic type players who can be successful in his system. When you trade for (albeit due to certain challenges experienced at the time) and draft non-athletic players with a Coach who seems hell-bent to “run and gun with a strong emphasize on defence”..(hard to type that with a straight face), there is bound to be problems.
JOB’s philosophy seems to be shoot the low percentage shot first and if they start falling, it opens up the low-post where the 4 or 5 can then pass it out to the perimeter players for more low percentage shots..
Right now I’m not too sure what either the coach, GM or the owners are thinking..or are they?
Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work.
-Thomas Edison
This teams a mystery...less than a month to trade now.
I hope Murph (and Dunleavy) have been playing to increase their trade value. I dont think either guy can spell defense. If I’m not mistaken, that’s why Nelson had them burried on Golden States bench. I really, really, really, really hope that we make some kinda move before the deadline; even if it’s for lame duck players with expiring contracts. I’m saying my prayers every night. “Dear God, as I lay me down to sleep, I pray the lord Granger to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray Murphs contract some team will take. Amen.”
Confucious say "He who dives for loose balls need proper fitting athletic cup!"
Responsibility
I have watched almost every game sofar this season. It is getting bad. The effort isn’t there and I am now watching some of the worst basketball I’ve ever seen. (why do I keep watching? I have no idea…)
I am getting really really tired of all the excuses. A different variation on the same theme every night. “the effort on the defensive end was poor”. “we got out hustled”. “we’re just not shooting well”. “we will go small next game”. Etc etc etc.
When in the world will responsibility for the poor play fall on the coach? At some point it has to.
by indy62 on Jan 21, 2010 3:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I guess my point is that the players can have poor shooting or poor effort some nights. That’s normal. But when the problem is systematic, you can’t just blame the players. Responsibility for systematic problems should fall to the coach.
by indy62 on Jan 21, 2010 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Very true,
unless he coaching staff is doing everything to the best of their abilities, but the players aren’t that talented. I just don’t think that is the case here. Although the Pacers could use another starting scoring option, their bench is relatively deep with players who could be bench players for a good team. There just isn’t a good scoring punch with the starters. I think a lot of the pressure needs to be on the coaching staff to get the players in a position to win every night.
Just not talented
I harped all offseason (especially after the Dahantay Jones deal).
The Pacers are just not flush with talent. That is what is more maddening about the recent run on low ceiling College Sr’s in the last few drafts.
Other than Danny Granger, who starts on a legitimate contender on this team?
Bird is enamored with low athletic hustle guys. He has tried to build a roster 9-15.
In the NBA you need to get 2-3 legitimate starts, and fill in around them on the cheap.
We have been doing it backwards.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Well again, look at the Rockets? They don’t have a single star at all (that’s at least playing for them right now). The difference between us and them though? They’re coached well. Their GM knows what he’s doing. I love our team. I think each guy brings something to the table. We have a team full of guys that can contribute. However, our front office is ridiculously terrible. Bad decision after bad decision. JOB’s rotation crap he’s always giving us and his players isn’t the solution. It’s the problem.
I can agree with most of that
However the roster in Houston works as a cohesive unit.
All those guys are there specifically for the system that is being run. Small post guys and athletic wings.
You don’t see them drafting 300 pounders and Tyler Hansboro’s to run their up and down system.
Us on the other hand.
It just is so mix and match. 7’2 post center in Hibbert, yet not a single guy on the roster who can get to the basket to get his shot in half court?
It just doesn’t fit together. Why bring in JOB if you aren’t going to give him the guys to implement his system?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
New Question
With all the speculation about player roster – who we should get, who to dump – I’ll be the first to say I don’t have a clue about the finer points of player-wheelin’-dealin’. Yeah, I got some ideas about who’d make good fits here and there but in the end, I come back to the same reality – we’re in a small market, with no money so we got to make the best with what we got.
BUT, my burning question is this – most all agree that JOB isn’t the guy to guide the team. Who is that guy???
Really, I would like to see everyone go, save for Danny, Roy and Hansbrough. Those guys have HUGE upsides. Everyone else? Eh. I like AJ, too. I’d love to see AJ with us down the line.
I was talking about who would you like to see as coach.
I think we’ve pretty much beat the player question too death-no?
Fire JOB Rally Night
Now is the time since no one in the Pacer organization will listen and are always taking a “I dont care attitude”, its time the fans begin to form. I am suggesting picking a game and having a FIRE JOB RALLY NIGHT. We desperately are needing a new direction before it costs us our franchise.
by Slick4President on Jan 21, 2010 9:01 PM EST reply actions
Who?
Who would you get to take over this roster midseason? Why pay 2 guys when we need to be tanking anyway?
Stay the course and look for a replacement in the offseason.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Offseason is too late
Our team is destructing in front of our eyes. They are bickering between themselves. This is going to destroy any chemistry we may have with this team. My biggest complaint is that the Pacers are being played away from their strengths so we really dont know how good this team could be. We are definately not the running team JOB is trying us to be. Coaches are a lot cheaper than players, especially as much as Larry pays his players. Lets see what we have in players and then try to make a trade at the end of the season. I for one believe the Pacers do have talent but it is being wasted and destroyed by our management. Let us slow it down with another coach and see what we have. Do you really think were going to make a blockbuster trade or have a big draft pick? I think not.
by Slick4President on Jan 21, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
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