More Trades to Discuss...

by incredibleFAULK on Jul 8, 2009 12:42 AM EDT

I too am new to the Cornrows and after reading LukeNukem's FanPost about his trade musings, I would like to throw out some other trade scenarios that have me a bit giddy inside.

1. Jamaal Tinsley and Jeff Foster to Detroit for Richard Hamilton. This trade brings minor financial relief to Indiana ($1.43 mil) for the short term. It would allow them a bit more wiggle room in an attempt to sign any of the available unrestricted big men (Zaza Pachulia, Anderson Varejao, Chris Wilcox, and Drew Gooden to name a few). This trade makes sense for Detroit because it gives them much needed help in the two areas of weakness they'll be facing this season. All their free agents are big men, which leaves Jason Maxiel as the only player of size currently under contract (not counting Villanueva). Jeff Foster is a rebounding specialist. And, he's become quite an adept low post defender. Rodney Stuckey is Detroit's point guard of the future, but he is a scoring point guard. He's still a year or two away from becoming a player Detroit can depend on to be the leader of the team. Tinsley has experience and could make an immediate impact on Detroit's hopes of maintaining their position amongst the top teams in the Eastern Conference. The Pacers get one of the best scorers in the NBA. He's a clone of the Indy legend, Reggie Miller. He's all of the sudden expendable now that Detroit has reached an agreement with Ben Gordon. The Pacers could mix and match lineups depending on match ups. Rush could move to the 3 and Granger to the 4. That's a pretty potent lineup of Jack, Hamilton, Rush, Granger, and Hibbert/Murphy/FA acquisition.

2. Jamaal Tinsley for Mark Blount. I would almost rather have Tinsley sit on our bench for another year than to have Blount. But, this trade kills several birds with one stone. It alleviates the Pacers of JT and all his off court issues. It gives Indiana a big body to insert into a thin rotation of big men. And, most importantly, Blount's contract expires after the 2009-2010 season. The Heat have been rumored to be keeping a close eye on Tinsley's pending arbitration hearing, which would lead me to believe they are interested in his services. He's cheaper than Blount, and would be more useful to them in the long run. They have only Mario Chalmers and Chris Quinn at point guard. Tinsley would certainly be an upgrade over Quinn and quite possibly even Chalmers.

3. T.J. Ford and Jeff Foster for Corey Maggette and Ronny Turiaf. This trade only takes place if we've got Jack under contract for next year. If memory serves me, the Pacers attempted to trade Ron Artest for Maggette in 2005 when he was still with LAC. The only snag at the time was Maggette's injured foot. He's been healthy ever since and would be a solid wing player for several years. Turiaf gives the Pacers a much needed presence down low on the defensive end. He averaged 2.13 blocks per game this year, good enough for 4th in the league. Why would the Warriors do the deal? Something tells me Donnie Nelson isn't convinced that Monta Ellis is a point guard. A back court of Ellis and Ford would be one of the fastest, most entertaining tandems to watch night in and night out. Foster gets after the ball a little better than Turiaf. Though Golden State was 11th in the league in rebounding, they were dead last in rebound differential - giving up 5 more rebounds per game to their opponents.

4. T.J. Ford for Rajon Rondo and Mikki Moore. This is a big risk for Indiana considering the rumors that Rondo is difficult to get along with. But, it gives the Pacers their point guard of the future and takes the pressure of Indy to have to match any potential offers for Jack. Moore's contract expires next season and would give the Pacers room to make moves in 2010. He would also add depth as a big man. Boston acquired him last year after Garnett's injury. He's certainly not a necessity for a very deep Boston front court. Boston would do this trade if they are truly concerned about team chemistry with Rondo. The window is closing on them to make another run at another championship. Ford and Rondo are nearly identical in their style of play, though Ford is a better scorer.

These are just some of the thoughts that keep me up at night. What do y'all think?

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Comments

Ha ha. Right Boston is gonna give away a Top 5 PG for a guy we're trying to dump.

HILARIOUS.

If you could really explain how this is a “big risk” for the Pacers I’d be all ears. Heck, I’d throw in Rush AND Hibbert to get Rondo.

by SethGrandpa on Jul 8, 2009 2:30 AM EDT reply actions

I think his reasoning here is that it seemed like the Celtics were trying to trade him. However, I agree it doesn’t make sense whatsoever.

All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!

by rollonubears on Jul 8, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Let me get this straight about the Maggette deal. You want to trade an expiring 8 million contract… for one of the worst contracts in the NBA? The Maggette signing made no sense when the Warriors did it. It makes even less sense now. I think I would rather wake up in a beehive then have that Maggette contract on our cap.

Ford is going to be an asset at the deadline because of his contract. Everyone is going to be tripping over themselves to get cap room for the most anticipated free agent class ever.

All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!

by rollonubears on Jul 8, 2009 2:50 AM EDT reply actions

Ford isn't expiring

He’s got a player option on the 2010-11 season. The only guy coming off the books for sure is Travis Diener. The Pacers have team options on Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush.

"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

by LukeNukem on Jul 8, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions

He isn’t expiring? Well all of my contract information is from NBA 2k9.

All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!

by rollonubears on Jul 8, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

try this instead...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm

by dbcb on Jul 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Name a better Wing...

Name a better wing on the Pacers roster (excluding Granger who plays the 3) who can match Maggette’s abilities. Dunleavy’s close, but he can’t stay healthy. Dunleavy has an identical contract to Maggette, only his expires two years earlier. When it does expire in two years, do you really think we’re going to be able to trade him? He has no real trade value. So, we’re stuck having to shell out even more money to keep him. Instead, we could get an identical player who gives us two more years at a run for a championship.

The way I see it, the Pacers have a window of 5 years to win a championship with the players they have (that’s when Granger’s contract expires). Dunleavy’s only going to be around for 2 more years. That’s not enough time to get this team to a level where they’re competing with the Orlando’s, Cleveland’s, and Boston’s of the Eastern Conference.

You’re forgetting the Pacers would also be getting Turiaf in this deal – a top-notched low post defender. I’d take Maggette and his contract along with Turiaf for Ford and an aging Jeff Foster.

Ford may have a better season in 2009-2010, upping his value. But, I’ve seen the Pacers sit on far too many players waiting for their value to go up only to be disappointed. There’s no guarantee Ford opts out next year, so his value won’t be as high as you think when the trade deadline rolls around. If Ford does opt out of his contract next year, then the Pacers are forced to pay him big money or let him walk. Why not trade him now before they reach that point?

The FAULK

by incredibleFAULK on Jul 8, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Your logic doesn’t make any sense.

If we do want to trade Dunleavy when he is expiring, he will have value BECAUSE he is expiring. Just check out the lopsided trades we have seen so far this year for a reason why. And we wouldn’t shell out even more money to keep him if he isn’t worth it. We would use our massive amount ot space to find someone else.

And we wouldn’t be forced to pay Ford or let him walk. We can trade him WHEN HE IS MORE VALUABLE… as an expiring 8,000,000. Or once again we go into that off season with a ton of cap room.

The Pacers are not planning on “contending for a championship” this year or the next. They are looking at 2011-2012 season when we only have Granger, Rush, Hibbert, and Hansbrough under contract. THey are building towards that year when a big FA or two could vault us to the top of the division (especially considering the top contenders now will be 2 years older). They are building around those 4 at the moment. Maggette doesn’t fit in there well.

by dbcb on Jul 8, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Thank you. I was about to say the exact same thing. We are not close to a championship. He needs his stomach pumped of the kool aid.

All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!

by rollonubears on Jul 8, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I got your back

As much as these other posters have hated on your ideas, I can tell you’ve put a lot of thought into them, and in spirit, they’re on point. Let me respond:

1. I like the idea of Rip Hamilton and the small-ball lineup you’ve suggested. But there are a couple of things that I think would prevent this from happening. First, I think the brawl is still fresh in the minds of the Detroit fan base, and dealing with Indiana at all would be a tricky situation. Second, I think Joe Dumars has balked at fair deals for Hamilton in the past, and even though Rip doesn’t want to come off the bench for Gordon, the asking price might be too high. Third, I doubt Tinsley’s value is high enough right now to net an all-star. In your scenario, the Pacers would have to probably entice the Pistons to take Tinsley with an unprotected draft pick, and I bet Larry Bird will not want to take back Hamilton’s long contract if he’s mortgaging the future in the process. A more realistic deal might be Ford and Foster for Hamilton, Maxiel and Aaron Afflalo, but Detroit’s interest in Ford, given their current logjam at ball-hogging guards, may be minimal.

2. Tinsley for Blount was discussed, and had the Pacers played their cards right and actually let Jamaal play backup last year in the role that they gave Travis Diener, I believe this deal would have already been done. Remember, two years ago Udonis Haslem was almost on the table for Tinsley. But, like you, I don’t know that Blount and his horrible contract and worse work ethic are worth it.

3. This trade makes the most sense for both teams. I wouldn’t put it past GS to have buyer’s remorse on Maggette, and he’d immediately solve the depth issue the Pacers have at the wing positions. Foster would be a key rotation player behind Andris Biedrins, and would provide the Warriors with the veteran post presence they need to make a little bit of playoff headway. But I’m not sure how Ford fits in. With him, Ellis, Steph Curry and Steven Jackson all needing the ball to be effective, I don’t know that there’d be enough shots to go around. I think the Warriors need a distributing PG in a bad way, and Ford isn’t that guy. But if they’d be willing to do it, it would address two Pacers needs at the risk of taking on Maggette’s bad contract.

4. I love this one, but I’m with the haters; I doubt Ainge lets one of the best young PGs in the league go for Ford and Foster. Right now, Rondo’s market value is as high as it will probably ever be, and the sheer fact that Ainge is trying to shop him leads us to believe that his character/locker room deficiencies is bad enough that he’d be willing to take back 50 cents on the dollar (because let’s face it, from a money perspective there’s no better talent:salary ratio player in the league than Rondo right now). I think Ainge knows that he won’t be able to offer Rondo the $8-$10 mil he’ll be looking for after this year, so he’d like to get some return on him, and there’s a chance that his character issues have been overblown to drive his value down, but that’s kind of far-fetched. When there’s smoke there’s fire, and Bird will, number one, not take back a bad character guy and number two, not take back a soon-to-be free agent he’s not willing or able to long-term after this season. A team with a stop-gap situation at PG would pursue Rondo, I think. I could see Wade bolting Miami after this year and the Heat offering Rondo $10 mil.

"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

by LukeNukem on Jul 8, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions

definitely agree with this analysis

I think the first one could be just a little more realistic since the Pistons could really use a solid big man (Villanueva isn’t quite the type of guy who’ll get too dirty) and it will be tough to get enough minutes for a couple of offensive-minded SG’s in Hamilton and Gordon.

The Blount trade could work but like everyone else, I have no interest in him. It’s tough because it seems like anyone is better than Tinsley, but that might not be true.

Again, the Maggette trade could work in terms of salary and talent, but I don’t know that the Warriors need a PG like that. Between Ellis, Curry and Ford, they’d have 3 skinny PG’s who can’t play a ton of D. Maybe if they are able to swing the Amare trade this could make more sense.

And yeah, this last trade has absolutely no chance of happening. I think what might have irked me the most is saying that they have similar styles of play. Rondo is way way WAY better on defense, it’s not even close. He also distributes the ball better and definitely rebounds better. Ford has speed and scoring on him, but that’s about it. The C’s do sound like they would like to get rid of Rondo, but they’re going to need something better than Ford.

Anyways, nice thoughts, random trade speculation is as fun as anything in the offseason

"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."

by psvirsky on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions

#3

GSW fans weren’t too hot on the idea either -

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/7/9/943990/trade-ideas-from-indy

by hardcore on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks for the post

Not easy concocting a trade with the current roster. The Tinsley for Blount trade is probably the most reasonable expect that they are so close to arbitration that any team interested in Tins would wait to see what comes of the arbitors ruling.

Indy Cornrows

by Tom Lewis on Jul 8, 2009 8:59 AM EDT reply actions

Welcome Faulkner....

Good to see you on here. I have been on for a week or so, but have yet to make my first post. I guess that’s what happens when you have a job year round!

by Cooper99c on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions

incredibleFAULK

Don’t know what you’ve been smoking but your TRADE ideas are a pure fantasy. Nobody wants our ‘medicore’ or ‘old fart’ players for their STUD players, i.e. Rip Hamilton or Corey & Ronny or Rajon. Yes, TJ Ford might be the only player that we have that is worthy of trade bait but we had NO takers even on Draft Night. Maybe the Jamaal for Blount trade might work because we ARE kinda THIN on the inside and Blout is a BIG that can also shoot it consistently. GMs, however, are waiting to get Tinsley on the ‘cheap’ (after his arbitration hearing) just like Larry is now trying to find NBA free agent players on the ‘cheap’.

by Pacerman on Jul 8, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions