Trade Musings...
So, I'm new to this blog. Heard about it over there at Stampede Blue. But I'm a huge Pacers fan and I'm really bored. So I'm going to make some trade suggestions and see what any of you guys think.
1. T.J. Ford (and possibly a future conditional draft pick) to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa and Alando Tucker-Remember those really quiet Ford to Phoenix rumors earlier in the summer? This is the only scenario that makes sense financially and isn't one-sided. I actually think it benefits the Suns more, at least in the long-term, as they'd save money quicker since Ford expires a year before Barbosa and get a viable Nash backup (something they've never had). Barbosa is an atrocious defender, so that doesn't jive with what the team needs help with, but he's a helluva scorer, and he and Tucker could help with the ultra-thin wing positions until Dunleavy returns. Tucker was a good defender in college, but hasn't done much since. Maybe he's the next Bruce Bowen (probably not, but who knows)?
2. T. J. Ford to Portland for Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw-Last year we heard that Portland asked about Ford at the trade deadline. They yearly talk about upgrading their starting PG spot, but seem reluctant to spend big money on Andre Miller. Why not rekindle the Ford trade talk? Outlaw's one of the most underrated players in the league, and he'd be popular here in Indy. We don't know much about Webster, but he'd get plenty of opportunities as the fourth wing in a four-wing rotation, at least until Dunleavy returned. Meanwhile, Ford, as shot-happy, small and unable to distribute as he is, would be a pretty significant upgrade over Steve Blake. As long as he agreed to let Brandon Roy take shots in the 4th quarter, he'd actually be a pretty good fit in Portland.
3. Jeff Foster and a conditional draft pick to Charlotte in a sign-and-trade for Raymond Felton-Though Charlotte's said they'd like to retain Felton, I bet they offer him the MLE, and try to sign some other free agent to a big contract (like Allen Iverson). If they end up with Iverson, Augustin and Felton, I think Felton's the odd-man out. Since he wants slightly more than the MLE anyway (and is probably worth slightly more than the MLE), they could sign him for about $6.5 and trade him straight up for Foster, who they supposedly asked about last year. Why Foster has such a huge contract, and why Bird is so unwilling to get rid of him (two years ago Philadelphia wanted him) is anyone's guess. Felton would address a need (PG of the future) and allow Bird to let Jack walk, and focus on re-tooling other areas, or simply allow him to be thrifty with his free agent money until the big 2010 class become available. The Bobcats are particularly soft and could use a player like Foster, but I bet they'd only be willing to take on his contract if the pick were included.
4. Troy Murphy to Philadelphia for Sam Dalembert-Look, I know what you're thinking...Murphy is a historically good 3 pt shooter/rebounder, while Dalembert is a foul machine with a five foot range. If anyone fits the Pacers system, it's Murphy...at least on paper. But consider that Murphy was other-worldly last year. HIs value will never be higher. He'll continue to be a specialist (big man with a three point shot, who's a pretty good rebounder) but numbers in the 14/12/45% range are never happening again. Dalembert, meanwhile, is the rugged interior defender the Pacers need to become tougher and more competitive. He's just a year removed from averaging 10/10/2 blocks. I think he was particularly stifled by having to play next to Elton Brand. If he played for the Pacers, Granger could move to PF, and Dalembert could just roam the lane for tip-ins...he'd be on the Marcus Camby track that he was on before last season when he almost ruined his value. The Sixers, at this point, just want to get rid of him, and though they wouldn't save significant money with Murphy (they expire the same year...Murph's just a tad cheaper) they'd address 3-pt shooting, which is their biggest weakness, and they'd help draw defenders away from Brand, making him more effective in the process.
5. Jamaal Tinsley and a conditional draft pick to NYK for Jared Jeffries-This is a trade I've been dreaming about since the whole Tinsley thing started. I think it's pretty far-fetched that, at this point, ANY team would take back Tinsley. But if anyone would consider, wouldn't it be the guy who drafted him? Tinsley would thrive in New York. I've always said he's got starter's talent with a backup's body (he just can't stay healthy and in shape). If he plays nice, he could still salvage his career as a successful backup. I think his flashiness and New York roots would appeal to Mike D'Antoni, too. But unless the Knicks can find absolutely no other takers for Jeffries, they wouldn't touch Tinsley (and I wouldn't blame them). Their salaries and contracts are almost identical; they wouldn't save money with Tinsley and would be taking a much bigger risk (hence the Pacers including a draft pick). I get the feeling Donnie Walsh is primarily interested in cutting salaries for 2010 to offer LeBron an NBA record-high salary, and this move wouldn't help him do that. But it'd be nice to see Jeffries in blue and gold, and even nicer to see Tinsley OUT of blue and gold.
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I really like the portland trade
It make sense for both sides webster fills the 2 spot the we need to fill and outlaw is just a bad ass
Thanks for stopping by
I’d love havin’ Outlaw in the mix with the Pacers.
- wouldn’t work simply because Jim O’Brien is no fan of Dalembert’s from his days in Philly.
Yeah...
But I think O’Brien might be on his last legs this year. I think it would take a pretty deep trip into the playoffs to save his job (or deflect blame from Bird). This franchise is in pretty dire straights, and firing coaches is easy. So far they’ve (at least according to rumor) not catered to O’Brien’s wishes. I’ve heard he didn’t want Hansbrough, he wanted Earl Clark…but that could be just talk.
I’m not saying there’s any reason to believe the Pacers will trade for Dalembert, but they’d improve an area they need to improve, and you have to admit it’s a seller’s market for Troy Murph right now…
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Welcome
and some good thoughts here. I think the deal to Portland would be a great trade for both teams. Webster, from what I hear, is losing his welcome out there because all he can do is shoot and I offers nothing else and I love Outlaw. Ford could be the pg they really need but it may be time for them to start developing Bayless behind Blake. The only one I wouldn’t like is Dalembert because I think Murph has more value than that and Dalembert can be a pretty big stiff on the offensive end.
"My game’s like the Pythagorean Theorem. It ain’t got no answer." - Shaq
by bleedinblueandgold on Jul 7, 2009 6:00 PM EDT reply actions
Webster is a young player with potential and a cheep contract
Portland is not trying to get rid of him at all.
I like the trade and imagine a lot of Blazer fans would as well.
Cheap Contract, yes
Is he ever going to play over Roy, Batum, Outlaw, or Fernandez? He is the fifth wing behind four pretty good ones. I don’t see why Portland would not be looking to use him as trade bait with another player to get a pg.
"My game’s like the Pythagorean Theorem. It ain’t got no answer." - Shaq
by bleedinblueandgold on Jul 7, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yes...
He started all season two years ago…and would have sent Batum to the D-league if he didn’t break his foot.
Would the Blazers trade Batum?
I’m a fan of Batum. A big one. I love the way he plays and I think he would be a perfect fit with the Pacers. The Ford to Blazers trade is one I would love. It seems perfect for both teams.
"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."
-Mitch Hedberg
Really long response, sorry
The trouble with trading with the Blazers is that, apart from Joel Przybilla (or however you spell his name), they are loaded with great contracts. The only contract they have that goes out farther than Pryz’s (2 more years left at a horrifying $6+ million a year) is Webster’s, and he’s signed at a reasonable $4 millionish per year. Reality will hit them after this season when they will have to start thinking about long-terming their stars. Oden’s play this year will determine a lot of it, but the Blazers are probably hoping he’s still kind of sucky and injury-prone so they can mid-level him and sign Aldridge and Roy to huge re-ups. But like it or not, guys like Fernandez, Batum, Outlaw and maybe even Bayless (depending on how he plays this season) are going to be looking for more money than the Blazers can afford to spend. I’m not sure how all of the player/team options will work out, but as it stands, Pryz is their highest paid player, followed by Aldridge (still in his rookie contract) and Brandon Roy isn’t even in the top five. Yeah, a team full of underpaid potential All-Stars instead of overpaid defensively challenged injured guys (or criminals). Lucky bastards.
So, if I were running the team, I’d do whatever I could to try to win a championship this year…and I think they’ve done that so far. They’ve been aggressively pursuing free agents (they’re after Lamar Odom right now). The fact that they haven’t signed Andre Miller yet, combined with the Bibby-to-Atlanta resigning earlier today, plus the rumor that they were, at one time, interested in Ford, could mean that they want him and would be willing to bite on a trade. But for the Pacers to take back Batum (a starter), the Blazers would still have to come up with $5.5-$6 million in throw-ins. Who fits the bill? Pryz…and I’m sure Bird wants no part of him.
One way to do it would be to offer up Dunleavy (arguably the Pacers worst non-Tinsley contract) AND Ford for Outlaw, Pryz, Webster and Batum, but I don’t see Bird taking back so many long contracts.
It works out financially for them to just throw Batum or Fernandez into the aforementioned Webster/Outlaw trade, but that’s pushing it…I think the Pacers would probably have to include an unprotected 1st rounder to get them to give up a starter and a sixth man for Ford…a fringe starter at best.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Heart is in the right place
But I think Portland is just too far off to win this year, especially with how top heavy the league is looking to be next year. I think Portland could win 60 games and still not even be one of the five best teams in the league.
I’m not sure what kind of pockets the Blazers ownership has, but you’re looking at serious luxury taxes keeping this team together. Though Pritchard has done a great job of building, maybe he’ll adopt the Colts motif and revolve in cheap, promising young talent around guys like Roy and Aldridge and not pay guys who aren’t going to get them to the championship. It would be really hard to do that in the NBA since they can’t realistically rely on the draft and would have to rely on other teams for trades of those young players, but it’s a possibility.
I’m sure Pritchard is already thinking of the future, but hopefully for the Blazers sake, he has a great plan in waiting. I want to see this team continue to succeed out West. They’re in a beautiful situation right now, but that’ll end pretty quickly. Roy is due for a payday after this upcoming year, and he’ll definitely get paid.
Blazers have the richest owner of any pro sports team in the US.
They aren’t worried about the luxury tax.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 8, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a question
Why does Allen own a Portland team? He could have helped out the Sonics. He already owns the Sounders and Seahawks. I’m a Paul Allen fan as an owner. He is my favorite NFL owner not named Irsay, but I think it is weird that he owns the Portland franchise. Maybe that’s just the Sounders fan in me with the rivalry with Portland coming out.
"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."
-Mitch Hedberg
He got the Blazers first.
From wiki:
Allen purchased the Portland Trail Blazers NBA team in 1988 from California real estate developer Larry Weinberg for $70 million.3 He was also instrumental in the development and funding of their Rose Garden in 1993.10 The Blazers are valued at approximately $300 million according to a 2006 issue of Forbes.37 Allen has been asking Portland and Oregon officials for assistance in the financing of the Blazers since 2006, which he estimated would lose $100 million over the next three years.38 Portland Mayor Tom Potter rebuffed the requests.39 Allen announced the completion of the acquisition of the Rose Garden on April 2, 2007, and stated that this was a major milestone and a positive step for the franchise.40 He said "My efforts are focused on continuing to support the Trail Blazers and the long-term financial health of the franchise."41
Allen purchased the Seattle Seahawks NFL team in 1997 when former owner Ken Behring threatened to move the Seahawks to Southern California.2 Allen was allowed to buy the team despite owning the NBA’s TrailBlazers since Portland, Oregon doesn’t have an NFL team. (NFL rules prohibit team owners from either outright ownership or a majority share of another sports team outside its home market if they play in the same city as another NFL team.) He played a large part in the development of the new Seahawks’ stadium, Qwest Field, although it was funded largely by tax revenue.42
Allen has been confirmed as part owner of the Seattle Sounders FC a Major League Soccer franchise that began play in 2009 at Qwest Field, a stadium also controlled by Allen.4
Couple of things
1) Joel Przybilla’s contract is one of the best in the NBA. Compare his production and price to centers league wide. Joel is the absolute best player in the NBA to have with Greg Oden until Oden is ready. Joel won’t be moved until Greg has hit his stride.
2) The Blazers can and will resign any player they want. Paul Allen has and will go into the luxury tax for a winning team. Roy and Aldridge are working right this second to get their contracts extended. They will both have new contracts before the start of this season. Roy will get a max contract.
3) Kevin Pritchard turned down Gerald Wallace for Batum and filler. Ford is not going to get him. The front office and coaches are too high on Batum.
4) Blazers are in win now mode…but if you think they should trade away their future…you are mistaken. They were the youngest playing rotation in the NBA last year and won 54 games. They have the luxury of waiting for a home run deal. Batum and Fernandez are not throw ins.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 8, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Except for the Przybilla part. Not to diss on your hometown inside knowledge, but he’s not one of the most valuable centers league-wide (or if he is, saying that doesn’t mean much because there are so few quality NBA centers out there). He’s right in the middle, or at least he was last year. The NBA average PER is, I believe, somewhere in the 15 range, and he had 15.4. His career average PER is just under 10. He’s proof that you can make an NBA career if you’re good at a couple of things (in his case blocking shots and rebounding) and you definitely don’t have to score. But if you look at Hollinger’s notes on him you’ll notice he’s not without his fatal flaws, namely that he’s a foul-prone offensive liability who causes a lot of silly turnovers. I’ll buy that he’s been situationally valuable during Oden’s growing up stage, but apart from last season, and at times from 2004-06, he’s been shockingly overpaid.
As for Batum and Fernandez being throw-ins, I never said they were. It’s just that the Pacers have so many bad contracts and the Blazers have so many good ones, so it’s nearly impossible for the Pacers to get equal value. Webster and Outlaw are probably the only way to do it. I was addressing the Batum question, and I’m like you; I doubt they’d part with him.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
OK
I have to say that the Blazers are stacked with young talent, and hopefully Oden will break out. With Oden on the team, I naturally cheer for Portland.
"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."
-Mitch Hedberg
Good Post
Also would love seein Outlaw in a Pacers uni. Portland has put many hours into ensuring Outlaw wouldn’t turn out to be a “lost in the mix” high school to pros player. He has become a high energy good player. I hadn’t thought about him as a trade possibility, but I like it!
I don't know about high energy
He literally brings nothing but a scoring mentality and a unguardable jump shot.
I know...
I was just trying to piece together a trade that worked financially and had Phoenix taking back Ford, and Barbosa was the only option, unless Ford would end up as part of a package that would net either Amare Stoudemire or Jason Richardson to the Pacers. Stoudemire would cry his way out of any trade that sent him anywhere but to a playoff contender in a warm city, and the Pacers don’t really need Richardson, so Barbosa was who I figured they discussed when the Ford rumor was out there.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
without adding too much, i like all the ideas behind the trades
as discussed, some seem a bit too unlikely, but they are all at least somewhat reasonable for both teams, and that’s rare when discussing trades. As for specific thoughts, I like Felton but not enough to give up Foster for him. I know we need to give up Foster at some point as he has one of our higher quality trade values, but not for another decent PG. I like the idea behind the Murphy for Dalembert trade, we could definitely use a PF who plays D and can toughen us up. I would hope to get a little more out of Murphy though coming off the year he had. Finding a team that overvalues 3 point shooting and already has a rugged interior defender would be ideal (Knicks maybe?). And any trade of Tinsley that gets us back someone who plays is nice and as an IU alum, I would enjoy having Jeffries.
"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."
Ill be extreeeemmmmeeellyyy
surprised if Foster isnt on a contender by the end of the year. Maybe Cleveland?
by captain flitzy on Jul 8, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
he’s as valuable a trade piece as we have. I just imagine that at some point a team is going to realize they really need a hustling big man with experience and a decent contract and there really aren’t many of those around. Hopefully his value will increase as teams realize their needs throughout the season
"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."
I like some
of these trade ideas…but what I don’t get is why fans are so quick to move Danny Granger to the PF spot. He’s best on the wing not tryin to operate in the post. And he’d struggle against opposing power forwards (he’s only 6’8" people) which would negate the whole “defense first” direction that the Pacers are trying to head in. The Pacers really need to look into Denver’s Dahntay Jones if you ask me. He’s young, cheap, can score, and plays more defense than half the current roster.
Agreed
Rumors are that they’re going to try Granger at PF, is all.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"

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